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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Reports of shooting at Batman Premier. (Page 17)

 
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Author Topic: Reports of shooting at Batman Premier.
Mike Blakesley
Film God

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From: Forsyth, Montana
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 - posted 09-15-2012 09:31 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brent Francis
Do the rest of us have to hear about Peni**s, Anu*es, or the never-ending gun debate? This is a non political board, kapeesh?
Well since the original subject had pretty much petered out (sorry!) and nobody is bashing anybody's political agenda, the thread falls under regulations in my view. Course I'm not a mod, but I don't see any problem yet. It's a spirited debate with no easy answers.

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Martin McCaffery
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From: Montgomery, AL
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 - posted 09-15-2012 11:12 PM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
But therein lies the question: How do we determine the stupidity? Nobody thinks that they're stupid. everyone thinks they're smart. Except me. I know I'm smart. [Smile]


As I was using the example you provided, letting child play with gun, child shoots adult should be pretty easy to codify. Reckless endangerment at the least.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

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 - posted 09-15-2012 11:21 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, but that's after the fact. It wouldn't prevent much, if anything. How many instances of a child playing with a gun and blowing someone away multiple times within the same household can you find?

quote: Brent Francis
Peni**s, Anu*es
Thank you for censoring those scary, grown-up words, Peter Pan. It is definitely immoral to say naughty words lest ye be struck by lightning.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-16-2012 02:01 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brent Francis
Peni**s, Anu*es
quote: Joe Redifer
Thank you for censoring those scary, grown-up words
If the second word is supposed to be anuses, what is the first word supposed to be?

quote: Mike Blakesley
Well since the original subject had pretty much petered out (sorry!) and nobody is bashing anybody's political agenda, the thread falls under regulations in my view.
Yup.

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Edward Havens
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 614
From: Los Angeles, CA
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 - posted 09-16-2012 03:12 AM      Profile for Edward Havens   Email Edward Havens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brent Francis
Do the rest of us have to hear about Peni**s, Anu*es, or the never-ending gun debate?
Last time I checked...
1) Joe was the only one who mentioned a penis or an anus. Once each. Until you.
2) This is... was... a thread about a shooting at a movie theatre. It was inevitably going to become a never-ending gun debate. Inevitably.
3) The Film-Yak board is specifically for non-film topics and general yaking.
4) Regardless of whatever country you are from, you have the freedom to read or not read any topic on these boards. In my part of the world, we call that "being proactive in your own decisions."

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Randy Stankey
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From: Erie, Pennsylvania
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 - posted 09-16-2012 07:57 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Edward Havens
4) Regardless of whatever country you are from, you have the freedom to read or not read any topic on these boards.
Nobody has a gun pointed at your head, making you read this message thread. Do they? [Razz]

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Brent Francis
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 - posted 09-16-2012 09:37 PM      Profile for Brent Francis   Author's Homepage   Email Brent Francis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh dear, oh dear. Touchy are we?

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Randy Stankey
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 - posted 09-16-2012 10:36 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, I thought it would be funny as hell to say, "Nobody has a gun pointed at your head," in a discussion about people who go around shooting other people with guns.

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Frank Cox
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From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
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 - posted 09-22-2012 12:07 PM      Profile for Frank Cox   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Cox   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First lawsuits filed against theatre in 'Dark Knight' shooting
quote:
DENVER - Three Colorado moviegoers who were wounded when a gunman opened fire at a July screening of “The Dark Knight Rises” on Friday sued the owner of the theatre, Cinemark USA, accusing it of failing to provide adequate security, their lawyers said.

The action marks the first known civil lawsuits filed over the July 20 shootings at a suburban Denver screening of the Batman movie that killed 12 people and wounded 58 others.

James Holmes, a 24-year-old former neuroscience graduate student at the University of Colorado, has been charged with murder and attempted murder in the case.

“Readily available security procedures, security equipment and security personnel would likely have prevented or deterred the gunman from accomplishing his planned assault on the theatre’s patrons,” the law firm of Keating, Wagner, Polidori and Free said in a written statement.

Representatives of Cinemark could not immediately be reached for comment.

On the day of the shooting, prosecutors allege Holmes bought a ticket to the movie, left the theatre through an exit door, propping it open on his way out. He then returned to the theatre clad in ballistic protective gear and armed with multiple weapons, opening fire on the crowd, prosecutors say.


Public defender Daniel King has said his client suffers from mental illness and sought help before the shootings.

In the lawsuit filed in Denver federal court, victims Joshua Nowlan, Denise Traynom and Brandon Axelrod claim the theatre chain was aware of previous criminal activity at or near the cinema including “assaults and robberies” and at least one other shooting involving gang members.

“Although the theatre was showing a midnight premiere of the movie and was expecting large crowds of people to attend the midnight showing, no security personnel were present for that showing,” the lawsuit said.

Nowlan suffered disabling injuries to his left leg and his right arm, which was nearly severed from the gunshots, the lawsuit said. Traynom was shot in the buttocks and Axelrod was shot in the right knee and ankle.

The lawsuit also states “there was no action taken by theatre employees to safely evacuate the many people” in the theatre once the shooting spree got underway.

The judge presiding over the criminal case ruled on Friday that some documents in the court file can be publicly released, but arrest and search warrants that detail the specifics of the crime will remain sealed because of the ongoing investigation.

Also on Friday, Aurora Mayor Steve Hogan said that Cinemark sometime next year will reopen the theatre, which has been closed since the shooting.

“The theatre has been a valued part of our community for many years,” Hogan said in a statement. “I am confident Cinemark will continue to remain sensitive to victims, their families, their employees and our community throughout their process of remodelling and reopening.”

The parts that I find interesting are: “Readily available security procedures, security equipment and security personnel would likely have prevented or deterred the gunman from accomplishing his planned assault on the theatre’s patrons,” and “Although the theatre was showing a midnight premiere of the movie and was expecting large crowds of people to attend the midnight showing, no security personnel were present for that showing”.

I guess we're supposed to have airport-style checkpoints and security guards at all entrances and exits now....

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Tony Bandiera Jr
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 - posted 09-22-2012 01:08 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Frank Cox
I guess we're supposed to have airport-style checkpoints and security guards at all entrances and exits now....
Which is what's inevitably going to happen now thanks to those dumb-ass lawyers.

I don't care if you had a hundred security guards present, if someone that stupid wants to do his deed, he's gonna do it.

Oh, and if those security measures get mandated into play, get ready to pay $25+ for a single ticket to cover the added costs. [Roll Eyes]

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Randy Stankey
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 - posted 09-22-2012 01:15 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Frank Cox
I guess we're supposed to have airport-style checkpoints and security guards at all entrances and exits now....
No. I think what the lawsuit is saying that the theater management should have been on notice that criminal activity has occurred in the area and they knew or should have known that an incident in their theater was likely, therefore, they had a duty to protect the customers who they invited into their theater but they did not fulfill that responsibility and that resulted in death or injury.

It's all just legal gobbledygook which is designed to lay out the requirements for a case: Duty to act, notice of a danger, failure to act and harm resulting from said failure.

To be honest, it looks like a slam dunk for the plaintiffs to me.

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Jonathan M. Crist
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 - posted 09-22-2012 02:16 PM      Profile for Jonathan M. Crist   Email Jonathan M. Crist   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Randy Stankey
To be honest, it looks like a slam dunk for the plaintiffs to me.

I think the question of liability will turn on why Holmes chose this theatre - as opposed to others in the town closer to where he lived - and just what the other theatres were doing for security on that night. Should it turn out that Holmes choose the Cinemark because of its lack of security vs others having such security on that night .... that would certainly bolster the Plaintiffs' case.

There are theories floating around that Holmes choose the Cinemark 16 because of its lack of security and its layout. It has been admitted that Cinemark routinely had police presence at the theatre on the weekends but since the DKR premiere was on a Thursday night there was no police there. Based on advance ticket sales Cinemark knew way in advance the size of the crowd for that night. Did other theatres in the area have police on duty that night? [Heck in NYC yesterday they had police at each of the Apple stores in anticipation of the crowds to buy the IPhoney 5]

I am somewhat surprised that Warner Brothers was not named as a defendant given that the trailer for Gangster Squad (with the earily similar theatre shooting scene) had been on screens since the first week of May. But then again ..... that may be better brought as a separte lawsuit.

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Mark Ogden
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 - posted 09-22-2012 03:40 PM      Profile for Mark Ogden   Email Mark Ogden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Randy Stankey
To be honest, it looks like a slam dunk for the plaintiffs to me.
I was thinking exactly the opposite. In fact, I'm betting on a dismissal.

It's very rare that courts break balls over random and utterly unforeseen acts like this. To recover anything from Cinemark, the plaintiffs would have to demonstrate that the theatre staff should have foreseen precisely this incident, to the point of being tipped off in advance that the guy was on his way over, and then sat on their hands and did nothing. Either that, or they will have to show a repeating pattern of violence at this place, such as constant fights in the lobby and in the parking lot and such that would have demonstrated that the theatre was a magnet for this kind of problem and required everyday security.

To draw a comparison to another mass murder: in 1987, a guy walked into a McDonalds in San Ysidro, California and opened fire, killing 21. McDonalds was sued by the victims families, but the case was summarily dismissed, then dismissed again on appeal. The ruling was that no business has the duty to protect its patrons from a sudden and random act of violence like this unless it knows for a fact that it is about to occur. McDonalds paid nothing.

Really, the only reason people are suing Cinemark is that they are the only people with any money in the case. There're not going to get anything out of the idiot himself. I would't be surprised if they go after WB, and then the property owners.

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Randy Stankey
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From: Erie, Pennsylvania
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 - posted 09-22-2012 03:55 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with your assessments but I would also say that, precisely the events you cite, the shooting at McDonald's in 1987 and the several highly publicized shootings in the recent past, constitute notice. Couple that with the fact that the theater has had security in the past, it could be said that they knew that people could cause trouble. Because they have had security in the past, it is clear that they knew or should have known that there could be problems.

The scope and severity of any past problems doesn't matter. That they had problems in the past and that they needed security officers to deal with them shows that they knew there was a potential for trouble which they ignored to the detriment of their customers.

Thinking about what you said, maybe it isn't such a slam dunk. [Shrug]

However, I will stand on what I said above. The article above, released by the plaintiff's representatives, no doubt, is merely positioning and laying out their case to establish the five pillars of their claim: Notice, duty to act, failure to act and harm as a result of that failure.

I think, if the case fails, it will fail on the fourth pillar. As you have alluded to, it will be hard to prove that the harm came as a RESULT of Cinemark's failure to act.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

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From: Denver, Colorado
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 - posted 09-22-2012 04:16 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jonathan M. Crist
I think the question of liability will turn on why Holmes chose this theatre - as opposed to others in the town closer to where he lived
What? This theater is the closest to where he lived. Aurora isn't exactly littered with theaters. The only one closer might be the Movie Grill but they are a very small 3 screen (generally second run) in a strip mall that wasn't showing Batman. Further south (way further south) in Aurora you have the Chinese 16 (now just called Arapahoe Crossing) and the Southlands whatever-plex.

Credentials: I live here.

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