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Topic: Film v Digital - Differences in Presentation Standards

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 10-05-2014 01:31 PM

35MM = autostrike assemblies might fail to where a manual bulb strike is needed. Put a new one in and all is good.

Machine is happily doing its thing.

Digital = network issues with projectors losing communication with servers, security issues and resets, RAID issues, and the VPI NAZI Police.

..and those boothless auditorium setups!

-Monte

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-05-2014 03:09 PM

I think just for Nostalgia sake on these Digital Films;they should still put the Que Marks up in the Right Corner every 20 minutes; so it at least gives you the illusion that you were watching Film [Roll Eyes]

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 10-05-2014 09:33 PM

Corrected screen image ..

The classic elliptical dots !

And suddenly, the image definitely shows quite a bit of acreage on the screen.

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-05-2014 10:13 PM

Yeah Monte;the sample I posted was 16mm [Eek!]

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 10-07-2014 02:03 PM

OK, totally off subject, but what made those wavy, white curliques around the edge of the black cue mark? I understand that the negative is punched and hence the black dot, but then how does that small little band of white with the ruffles on it get there?

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006

posted 10-07-2014 04:42 PM

quote: Frank Angel
how does that small little band of white with the ruffles on it get there?

I don't know, Frank, but I had always noticed that on "real" IB-Tech
prints, the change-over 'lab dots' were always more like little 'stars'
and had an 'edge color' border around them.

It probably made them more obtrusive to the patrons, but almost
impossible to miss as a projectionist, unless you just happened to
sneeze or blink at that moment. Oh, how I miss them. . . . .

I do recall reading once, somewhere, how Technicolor did this, but,
unfortunately, I don't remember any of the details.

LOOK:

(an image I found online)

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Jarod Reddig
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 513
From: Hays, Ks
Registered: Jun 2011

posted 10-07-2014 09:31 PM

Overall Ive noticed that the theaters that couldn't get film right still have crappy presentations with digital. Then the theaters that did good with film are having more consistently good presentations with digital.

I notice an overall improvement in brightness compared to film as well as a steady image. I have also noticed that digital black levels for the most part pale compared to film, although in most cases ambient light is still an issue film or digital with an EXIT sign shining on the screen. Audio wise I hear imporovments with digital locations but as said shitty EQ's are still and will keep on being an issue.

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-07-2014 10:23 PM

quote: Jim Cassedy
I don't know, Frank, but I had always noticed that on "real" IB-Tech
prints, the change-over 'lab dots' were always more like little 'stars'
and had an 'edge color' border around them.

Jim;This is from a 16mm IB-Tech Print...Look Familiar to your Sample [Confused]

"War of the Worlds"

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-08-2014 01:51 AM

Now I remember where I saw a Cue Punch that made that IB-TECH Pattern. If any of you have an Old SOS PHOTO-CINE-OPTICS -INC. Catalog from the 70's you will find one in there.They had an East and West Outlet. One on Burbank Blvd in North Hollywood and one in New York. They had Everything related to TV and MP. Bought a Ton of Stuff from them through out the 70's. I know I have some of their Old Catalogs;but Where! [Confused]

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001

posted 01-27-2015 06:24 PM

I just seen 4 films in the last 2 days. Only one of them had good presentation. 2 out of focus and 2 with sound issues (So to keep up with the math one had both out of focus picture AND a problem with the sound - lucky it was only Taken 3.)

So that's how I'm doing at the moment. [Frown]

Just had something strange happen to me a couple of times in 2 different auditorium. Surround sound only coming from the back wall - nothing from the sides (these were both meant to be 7.1 theatres) Happened a while ago with the last Die Hard film and just in the last few days with the new Hobbit film. Any idea? Did they just forget to turn on all the amps?

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 01-27-2015 07:46 PM

quote: Michael Brown
Just had something strange happen to me a couple of times in 2 different auditorium. Surround sound only coming from the back wall - nothing from the sides (these were both meant to be 7.1 theatres) Happened a while ago with the last Die Hard film and just in the last few days with the new Hobbit film. Any idea? Did they just forget to turn on all the amps?

This could be a thousand things obviously, but if none of the speakers on the side was working during the entire show it's probably due to failed or switched off amps.

Missing channels isn't something new, most people will only start complaining if the center channel drops dead... Also, ever tried to convince some lowly cinema staff some channel isn't working?

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-27-2015 08:12 PM

quote: Michael Brown
Only one of them had good presentation. 2 out of focus

And thanks to digital it will stay out of focus until someone has a technician come in and refocus, which probably means forever (in DCP lifetimes). No chance of accidentally getting it in focus.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 01-28-2015 02:05 PM

In my experience d-cinema has brought up the bottom level of movie theaters to much improved standards, but it has been an obvious step backwards in theaters that were already doing a good job with film projection.

Locally, d-cinema gear has made it tolerable for me to see a movie at the 12-plex in our mall here. However, presentation quality still isn't top notch.

Others have rightly pointed out that d-cinema is not idiot proof. Theaters that were making silly mistakes in film presentations can be counted on for goofs with digital.

My biggest complaint about digital -where it has been a step backwards: image quality.

The image may be totally steady and debris free. But it isn't sharp. With things dialed out of focus, perhaps on purpose, what difference does it make if the projector is 2K or 4K? I have to watch something on freaking Blu-ray at home if I want to see a crisp, sharp looking image.

For example, I've visited Harkins' Cine Carpi theater in Oklahoma City several times, including a few visits before the switch to digital. The booth used to have a very good Kinoton 35mm projector that threw pretty sharp looking images on a 70' wide screen (my only complaint was the images were a tad bit dim; something that would be solved with 5/70mm projection). With digital this same theater is showing imagery that isn't nearly as sharp. I strongly doubt they've cut corners. The house is equipped with Dolby Atmos. It's one of Harkins' showcase auditoriums.

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Missing channels isn't something new, most people will only start complaining if the center channel drops dead... Also, ever tried to convince some lowly cinema staff some channel isn't working?

I've been through this before, at a freaking brand new movie theater no less. The 7.1 surround sound was loud and dynamic, just no center channel.

quote: Martin McCaffery
And thanks to digital it will stay out of focus until someone has a technician come in and refocus, which probably means forever (in DCP lifetimes). No chance of accidentally getting it in focus.

I think a lot of digital-based movie theaters have the picture shifted out of focus deliberately. I'm sure some of it has to do with trying to hide that crude, electronic looking pixel grid. It also probably has to do with battling moiré created by the dot pattern of the perforated screen and pixel grid pattern from the projector (film obviously never had this problem). And then it also comes down to the quality of optics on the projector.

I haven't priced any d-cinema projector lenses, but just looking at the glass of some of these zoom lenses I imagine some of them must be very expensive. So I also image there are opportunities where the theater can cheap out and get a lesser quality, softer looking projection lens. If they're deliberately trying to hide the pixel grid or just eliminate moiré then what's wrong with saving some bucks on glass? By the way, lower quality lenses can introduce chromatic aberration, such as green and purple fringing on high contrast edges. This might be what some are seeing in regard to "convergence issues".

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Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1100
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 01-28-2015 03:53 PM

How the hell can you sit and watch an out of focus picture? Missing sound channels might be borderline tolerable but in either case I'd be out of there in a heartbeat.

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Buck Wilson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 894
From: St. Joseph MO, USA
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 01-28-2015 04:03 PM

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Also, ever tried to convince some lowly cinema staff some channel isn't working?

Well heck, have you tried convincing MANAGEMENT there's something wrong??

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