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Author Topic: Loud Movies Could Damage Hearing Andy Summers Master Film Handler Posts: 397 From: Bournemouth Dorset United kingdom Registered: Jun 2005 posted 07-15-2005 01:59 PM                 Sorry Gordon I was just going though the “Film-Tech” archival catalogue and I have too say, being out of the game for a few years there is some incredible reading far better than any other home cinema forum, well done “Brad,” again high numbers good looking site, universally informative throughout for the projectionist and totally indispensable…. Andy  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 07-15-2005 02:11 PM                    quote: Andy Summers The US navy play there LFA at 240db What is LFA, is that large format or something? If so what the hell are they playing it almost twice as loud as a jet engine?  |  IP: Logged Andy Summers Master Film Handler Posts: 397 From: Bournemouth Dorset United kingdom Registered: Jun 2005 posted 07-15-2005 06:16 PM                 LFA, Low Frequency Active Sonar…. http://www.bluedolphin.org/News/usnavy.html Now I think we have met are match with the navy boys aye, aye captain….. So I’ve also heard that THX can recreate the sound of an atomic bomb KABOOM, though I’m not sure if someone as been taking something, however I like some to expand the logic of the mind….  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 07-16-2005 06:03 PM                     A jet engine is 140 dB. Twice as loud is 143 dB. So a 240 dB sound would be... 10^((240-140)/10) = 10^10 = 10,000,000,000 = 10 billion times louder. Whoa . --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-17-2005 10:06 PM                     quote: Andy Summers I’ve also heard that THX can recreate the sound of an atomic bomb KABOOM Hmmm... Let's see... On one hand we have a couple dozen circles of paper, metal and plastic 14 inches in diameter. On the other hand, we have a megaton nuke-you-ler bomb which literally creates a hole in the atmosphere hundreds of meters in diameter and creates temperatures that come close to those found on the surface of the sun. Which one would be louder? Sure. In an enclosed space a sound system could produce some mighty loud sounds but the sound of a nuclear blast is in a completely different ballpark. You're talking about moving gi-mongous amounts of air! Try taking an arbitrary size volume of air... say, 10 cubic meters (10m = 32 ft. + some fraction)... then move it some arbitrary distance... say 10 meters to the left... in just one second. Heck! Zaphod Beeblebrot would have a tough time doing that! I imagine a good size atomic bomb would be orders of magnitude larger than that! I'm pretty much making up these numbers but the concept I'm trying to put into your mind is just how large a scale you're asking Uncle George to work at! Now, do you think a THX system (or any system) can recreate that? If it could, don't you think it would KILL anybody who tried to listen to it? You want to hear something LOUD?! I mean REALLY FUCKING LOUD?! Get yourself down to Cape Canaveral the next time they launch the space shuttle! I'm told it's so loud it can't actually be measured. It's something that's FELT more than it's actually heard! But you can't go to the public viewing area that's 10 miles away from the launch. That's for pussies! You have to get yourself into the VIP area! It's only about 3 miles from the pad! That's where the REAL MEN go! I have read about the "sound" of a shuttle launch and I know people who have seen one but I haven't done it yet. Seeing a shuttle going up is on my top-5 list of things I have to do before I die.  |  IP: Logged Lyle Romer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1400 From: Davie, FL, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 07-17-2005 10:22 PM                     On an interview once in Melbourne, FL which is 25 miles or so from Cape Canaveral, they told me that in the first shuttle launch back in 1981, the vibration was cracking houses and breaking windows in town. It was after that when NASA added the water spray at the bottom of the launch pad to absorb some of the energy. To the topic of discussion, I'm sure a reproduced nuclear explosion sound (or anything close) would destroy your inner ear at the very least.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-17-2005 10:56 PM                     A really good (assuming "good" = loud) sound system could produce a sound that the listener imagines to be the sound of a nuke. A really, really "good" system could even produce sounds that closely mimic the sound of a nuke, even to the point of making the listener's ears bleed. But, I agree with Lyle. The "real" sound of a nuke would do nasty things to the listener... Like liquify the brain!  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 07-18-2005 12:04 AM                     Here's the last really loud thing I encountered, yesterday when leaving the Bricktown area next to downtown Oklahoma City. Trust me, I've never heard anything in a movie theater quite as loud as a set of air horns on a locomotive -especially when the thing is slowly crossing right in front of your vehicle. I took that photo at one point when the train's horns weren't sustaining a long skull rattling honk. Granted, I've heard some piercing noises in some theaters -probably where the EQ was not properly set. However, I think a lot of folks get dynamics and loudness confused. The mourned GCC Northpark #1 theater in Dallas was brought up in another thread. That theater had an excellent sounding sound system. But it had the power to startle the crap out of most audience members. I remember this moment in "Jurassic Park" where a baby raptor scene cuts hard to the feeding pen scene -punctuated with a big raptor scream. I saw one fellow jump bad enough his straw flew out of his drink cup. But I don't think that burst of audio was loud enough to damage your hearing. For loud thrills here in Lawton, try hanging out at the south end of the air field aboard Fort Sill. C5 Galaxy transports from Altus Air Force Base do touch and go operations there on a regular basis. The scream of those jet engines and the deep bass give the C5 a distinct sonic character all its own.  |  IP: Logged Chase Hanson Expert Film Handler Posts: 172 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 07-18-2005 01:51 AM                     quote: Randy Stankey Now, do you think a THX system (or any system) can recreate that? If it could, don't you think it would KILL anybody who tried to listen to it? Yes...it can REcreate the equivilant waveform after it has traveled a sufficient enough distance (read: lost enough energy) to be audible.  |  IP: Logged Andy Summers Master Film Handler Posts: 397 From: Bournemouth Dorset United kingdom Registered: Jun 2005 posted 07-18-2005 06:27 AM                 Interesting guys that the issues surrounding this thread have some truths to them, well maybe it’s the approximation of the sound of an artificial sound that as been put together. Has for the “Space Shuttle” she is loud more felt is true, in “Space & Air magazine” May or June issue 1981 I read the review and the comments stating that the ground was vibrating from the 3 mile distance was quite frilling, when she’s about a few miles up she pounds you in the chest, and the raw static sound of her main engines and the “SRB Solid Rocket Boosters” is very dynamic. On a science program called “Space” hosted by “Sam Neil” of “Jurassic Park” fame, one of the real life Astronaut’s “Story Musgrave” says it is 130db in the cockpit of the “Space Shuttle” on the outside it’s completely different. It’s said the Might “Saturn V!” could power “New York” for about 30 minutes to1 hour, hell that’s’ a whole lot of power she has. As for films like “The Shadow Makers” AKA “Fat Man and Little Boy” the creation of the “Atomic Bomb” which I have on DVD as I didn’t get to see this at the cinema the mix hear as some possible potentials to explore as for making the testing of the “Gadget” sounding real and eventful of that point in time, as the sound wave will be travelling at god knows how many Miles Per Hour, sound is 1.138 Per Sec so would doubling the subwoofers to a really crazy amount. I’m talking science hear, not that I know whole lot about science, only what I read makes for interesting reading, but some of you sound like you have PhDs in audio and a lot of other hyper physics, so we have to think like children as children are more curious and as we get older we tend not to explore that much. So without doing this test in practice, with a lot of trial and errors involved will make good science how many foot pounds is the “Space Shuttle” how many foot pounds is an “Atomic Bomb” these questions I like answered so who is crazy enough hear to stick in the ear plugs and place the ear defenders on and conduct these experiments…. I’m crazy but I don’t have enough “JBL” Subwoofers to do this maybe get the PA guy to drop off some 20 JBL 4645B subwoofers with amplifiers as well, set this beast up and see what can be achieved in the cinema getting the air to blow out of the air duct ports only happens from 40Hz downwards there about and dropping down into the infersSonics register. I mean at what frequency is wind, you stand outside and the wind blows against you, it’s uniform excellence being felt as herd as well, but if you stick in ear plugs along with ear defenders on, to filter out as much of the directional sound as possible, this unseen and more felt pressure pressing on you sometimes knocking you over, as for the SPL of this natural Phenomenal Experience, it’s variables are always changing. I should or perhaps maybe someone else can start something new thread in the “Afterlife” section about this as there are so many unanswered questions, and I like to know, as I’m sure some of you guys as well would like to know the answers to the great powerful mystery of the cinema sound experience to make this truly wholesome as humanly as possible. Wait on there a moment, I’m getting a thought, yes I’m getting a thought, and I’ve read that different frequencies been sent to different subwoofers can make it sound very good, like multiples of subwoofers say 10 for the 20 subs for the frequencies from 7Hz or 10Hz going upwards to 20Hz, then another 20 subs for the frequencies from 20Hz to 50Hz, and lastly 20 more for frequencies from 50Hz to 80Hz, and having this all placed below the screen and depending on space that I know is limited in parts but some alterations will have to be made, so with everything in place which frequency section do you assign to play 10Hz to 20Hz the bottom section the middle section or the top part of this 80 piece monster cinema sub bass array. Now I have played around with the infersSonics that have frequencies around 4hz 8Hz and 16Hz it’s more air blowing out of the JBL 4645 and though it’s very difficult to hear this at close range by placing the front of my body against the three air duct ports it’s pressure is pressing on me, only it’s uniform excellence is not how it would or should be in real life, there is a window leading to the kitchen from the home cinema room, with a door in-between this, now if I open the door the window in the kitchen rattles, I mean rattles big time due to the wave length of the frequency and the SPL level of it too. So if I where to add say 4 to 7 more subwoofers I can say goodbye to the kitchen window, as it will crack or drop out of it’s frame, not that I’m going to practice this method as I like the window to remain intact, the infersSonics require lots of amplifier power and play it back and on just 1 sub alone and filtering out the other frequencies above 20Hz the maximum number required hear, for argument sakes say it’s 70db at 3meters then around 19 more subs it should be 127db there about, so we need to be safe and then reduce this level to around 110db max, but what is this going to feel like sat at the front row, to the middle and the back row as well as sides too. Maybe place subs around the cinema, yes this is very costly as is many other factors like will this make this film a big hit in theatre admission sales, is the chance wroth the risk. I know you guys have probably got better fish to fry, as I do as well but I like to try this out, I mean nothing new is been said hear, but if a cinema is going to break new grounds with the Dolby the DTS and the SDDS then it has to be done with Fierce conviction.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-18-2005 01:10 PM                        quote: Bobby Henderson Trust me, I've never heard anything in a movie theater quite as loud as a set of air horns on a locomotive That's for sure. The BNSF tracks (complete with crossing) are one block away from our theatre and even with all of the doors closed, it's still sometimes possible to hear the train whistle during quiet parts of a movie. It drives me nuts, but people around here have learned to live with it since the railroad is a big chunk of our economy. (I do feel sorry for the motel on the other side of the tracks!)  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-18-2005 05:39 PM                     G.E. Transportation Systems, where they build locomotives is headquartered in Erie. Some guys from G.E. used to go to the local professional hockey games. (Erie Otters -- They otter get a better name for the hockey team!) They brought the horn off a locomotive and set it up behind the home team's goal. They would sound off when the home team scored. It was pretty darned loud, although I'm sure it wasn't as loud as it could have been. I never looked at it closely but I think they just hooked it up to a regular old run-of-the-mill air compressor. They don't do it anymore. I guess too many people complained.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 07-19-2005 03:00 AM                        is andy summers a real person, or is he a composite of gordon mcleod and monte fullmer?  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 07-19-2005 03:08 AM                  ...and N2 I-30 BIG time....  |  IP: Logged Andy Summers Master Film Handler Posts: 397 From: Bournemouth Dorset United kingdom Registered: Jun 2005 posted 07-19-2005 07:37 AM                 As real as you are, and I’m staying to reflect myself on this wondrous site. So you have difficulty in buying what I have said, well I’m not like the 99.999% of you I’m different and therefore special. Today I had a thought of using a balloon & placing it over a SPL meter, inflating it where I would use it to measure sound pressure level, “WIND” the experiment is unique and will take some trial & error to get the results that I will be looking for. Are bodies are mostly made up of water, and so I’ll make two different types of balloon SPL measuring techniques one will have water inside the balloon and this I very excited about so when I get the time this week and feeling healthy as well as I have been battling “psoriasis” for 23 years and it does ware me out. So again the whole purposes of this test is, to see what the SPL levels are going to register at.  |  IP: Logged

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