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Topic: CDS-Equipped Theatres
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 08-11-2003 04:06 AM
Darryl said: "Fantasound ended in 1941 and would not be heard again until a remastered version in Dolby Stereo was recorded in 1982 with Irwin Kostal conducting the Stokowski arrangements."
Not quite true; FANTASIA was rereleased quite a number of times over the years, one notable release was an anamorphic version that, although the animation was distorted by the bizzare attempt to make them "scope" and morphing everything that was round into obvious ovals, the soundtrack was a 4 track mag record of the original multitrack optical recording. The 1 sheets for this release (circa 1955) claimed "In FantaSound."
This unfortunate release in pseudo-scope was just a bad idea based on worse marketing -- the idea being that wide screen had become a sizzling hot item at the time and here was a way Disney could capitalize on it and add the original stereo (Fantasound) to the print via mag tracks. They claimed this version of FANTASIA was in Superscope.
Now, if it were JUST a straightforward playing of the 1.37 print with an anamorphic lens, the savvy exhibitor could simply play it without the anamorphic attachment and he'd get the original image plus the 4 track mag sound. Good enough. But as it turned out, the studio decided (very wrongly IMHO) that they could get away with stretching out the animated segments, but not the human beings. So they optically compressed all the live action sequences, deleted all the Deams Taylor segments (they needed to get rid of the need to lipsync -- more on that later) that joined the animated works together and then, when the animated sequences began, they did an optical spread out to full frame width, which, of course, would then become "scope" on the screen. Everyone included me saw the insanity of that version, but if you wanted to run FANTASIA in stereo, it was the only print that had the original stereo. So, how to get the stereo sound and not the distorted "scope" image?
Our solution was to use a Superscope variable anamorphic lens (having nothing to do with the Disney claim that the film was in Superscope). For the live segments which the studio optically compressed on the print (projected with a normal anamorphic lens, they appeared on the screen as a normal 1.37 image), the Superscope lens would be set to standard 2x stretch. But when the animation came on and the studio did an optical to gradually returned the image to full frame, I manually decreased the anamorphic stretched to zero, leaving the normal 1.37 image on the screen. After a few shows, I was able to time dialing down the anamorphic stretch to zero or back to full 2x to match the optical stretch or compression on the print; most of the time the audiences noticed no change at all on the screen; with this method, I could play the film in 1.37:1 without any of that anamorphic distortion nonsense but get the 4 channel original Stokowski tracks. What we won't do to get stereo sound!
"Wasn't Fantasia recorded in 1754 or whenever the movie was made? All I know is that it is horribly old."
Ehem....Age isn't necessarily horrible and by the standards of the day (1939), FANTASIA was one of the most daring and inventive cinema works to ever come out of the Disney studios. It INVENTED technology to present stereo sound a decade before its time. And the animation was astonishing, again for its time -- nothing like this had ever been attempted before.
For those born forty years later, it may not have the eye candy that is common-place with today's computer generated images, but it broke all kinds of new ground in its concept and execution in its day. In fact, it wasn't supposed to be a "movie" at all, but a new kind of movie concert.... a Fantasia. The idea was that the Disney studios would continually create new animation and Stokowski would record new symphonic works. The older segments of the film would be pulled and the new ones inserted; people would be able to go to a Fantasia Theatre as they were to be called, and see FANTASIA with new works in it. Because of the staggering economics and sheer size of the system, it was a financial disaster and studio abandoned any further work.
The marriage of music and animation stands alone to this day, regardless of how many "music videos" are churned out like so much manure from the great ass of Hollywood.
It is said that Walt Disney went into a deep depression when his idea of a movie concert and the film itself were so roundly lambasted by the critics. To his death, he claimed that FANTASIA was the work he was most proud of and most dear to his heart.
"No matter how great the sound is, I still hate that movie with a passion."
Interesting; could you tell us why? Perhaps it doesn't rise to the level of Hip Hop videos? A little respect might be in order for the accomplishments of the movie pioneers of the past.
"Yes, they just had an orchestra play the same score "synched" as best they could, because it would be NEW AND IMPROVED!
The original animation was made to bar sheets & the recorded track, & edited after shooting. It was tight, like sound & image are with classic Disney & WB cartoons. The new score was done the other way around, like Fleischer (Popeye) cartoons, trying to stay synched to the picture. Not only was the orchestral performance pretty mediocre, but the sync was mostly off, sometimes way off. It was no longer a cool theatrical experience of musical & visual unity.
I saw it, it stank. Real bad."
Perhaps you saw what was an unfortunate problem that dogged the 80s digital presentation of the Kostal rerecording. At the time the studio recording was digital, but you have to remember that as yet there was no digital on film -- No Dolby D, no DTS, no SDDS and even no CDS. The digital system that played in the major markets was interlock (sort of) with a Sony PCM deck.
The print was run from a platter and projectors were equipped with synchronous motors; the PCM deck just ran on the fly. They were started together, but once they were going, it was pot luck - the projectionist at the Zeigfeld in NYC said they would stay in sync MOST of the time, but he said that when they would drift, it was his job to manually switch back to the analog track if he though they were noticeably off. It was his call, and from my discussion with him, he seemed to be of the mind that you couldn't tell if the music was out of sync with animation. "After all, it doens't have to be lip sync....no one is talking." Hence the reason behind deleting the Deams Taylor sequences -- no lipsync issues on his closeups. And you had to wonder how closely projectionists paid attention to the screen at anyone given moment anyway. Who know how far adrift sound and picture where when you saw it.
And I disagree that the Kostal score was not "tight;" I ran that very 1982 Kostal print last year, playing the analog Dolby A stereo track, and except for the obvious improvement in fidelity and the spatial width of the stereo soundfield, Kostal's conducting was very true to the Stokowski interpretation and it was perfectly synced to the image. In fact, in an interview Kostal gave, he said he knew what he was up against in terms of the negative comments that would come from the purists who would have him drawn and quartered just because his recording was replacing the Stokowski recording. He admitted that it was very clear that his job was not to reinterpret Stokowski's original recording, but to match it and provide sonic clarity that was missing because of the technical limitation of the 1939 optical recording technology. And that he did, I would say, note for note, musical phrase for musical phrase.
To see the spectacular animation (hand painted, I might add with nary a single CGI frame in the whole film) married to an open, airy, full orchestral track was a rich experience. I have 3000 patrons who saw it in our open air theatre who seemed to feel the same. I also have the CD of the Kostal soundtrack and I certainly wouldn't characterize it as mediocre. It is perhaps not the best reditions of the works, but given the restraints under which the conductor was saddled, his version is as much a pleasure to hear as many other recordings of the same works that I have collected over the years.
Interestingly, almost every time I have booked that masterpiece (at least 7 or 8 times since about 1975), I would find patrons in their 20s and 30s who had never seen FANTASIA, asking "when did it come out...a few years ago?" I'd tell them, no, 1939; they invariably would register surprise that a film THAT OLD could look so fresh.
Frank
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