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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » CDS-Equipped Theatres (Page 9)

 
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Author Topic: CDS-Equipped Theatres
System Notices
Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi

Posts: 215

Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 03-26-2007 08:20 PM      Profile for System Notices         Edit/Delete Post 

It has been 1300 days since the last post.


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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-26-2007 08:20 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Woops...sorry. Purposely blank.

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Mike Olpin
Chop Chop!

Posts: 1852
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 03-26-2007 08:39 PM      Profile for Mike Olpin   Email Mike Olpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd like to use this opportunity to point out that on page 1 of this thread I said:
quote:

I can't stand the AMC Century City 14. I can't believe that so many people (in hollywood!) would want to wacth a movie in such small thatres with tiny screens, awfull sound, and projectionists who cant seem to focus for ****. AMC should bulldoze that sucker and rebuild a nice theatre in its place.


HA! Called it!

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Sam King
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 120
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Oct 2006


 - posted 03-27-2007 12:09 AM      Profile for Sam King   Email Sam King   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I still don't see any picstures nor links to any pictures of the actual processor and reader. I'd love to see them! :-D

Sam

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-27-2007 12:42 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
When I get a little extra time I will photograph my system for you.

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Sam King
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 120
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Oct 2006


 - posted 03-27-2007 01:05 AM      Profile for Sam King   Email Sam King   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I'd like to use this opportunity to point out that on page 1 of this thread I said:
quote: Mike Olpin

I can't stand the AMC Century City 14. I can't believe that so many people (in hollywood!) would want to wacth a movie in such small thatres with tiny screens, awfull sound, and projectionists who cant seem to focus for ****. AMC should bulldoze that sucker and rebuild a nice theatre in its place.


HA! Called it!
And I actually miss the old AMC 14. At least it had 5 good sized houses with good sized screens!

[ 03-27-2007, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: Adam Martin ]

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Christos Mitsakis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 242
From: Ag.Paraskevi, ATHENS, GREECE
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 03-27-2007 09:17 AM      Profile for Christos Mitsakis   Email Christos Mitsakis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It was on ebay amonth ago or so

CDS processor:
 -

Penthouse reader:
 -

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 03-27-2007 10:54 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Was there a 35mm only version of the reader, or did you have to buy the dual-guage version, even if you only ever ran 35?

I can't understand why the processor had to be so big; the Dolby and SDDS ones were only slightly later, and they were only a fraction of the size.

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Mike Olpin
Chop Chop!

Posts: 1852
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 03-27-2007 12:19 PM      Profile for Mike Olpin   Email Mike Olpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It looks like a rack mountable mini-fridge.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-27-2007 01:37 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Not the most elegant or compact system, but it was the first that put "bits on film" for true digital sound.

quote:
And Along Comes Digital Audio

In 1990, the Optical Radiation Corporation in collaboration with the Eastman Kodak Company introduced the world’s first digital audio format for film. Called Cinema Digital Sound, or CDS, it was first introduced to the public with the 70mm release of Dick Tracy. Unfortunately, it only enjoyed a handful of releases before ORC pulled the format from the marketplace. CDS was a highly engineered technology, incorporating an error detection and correction scheme in the printed bit map to ensure robustness of the digital signal. The bit map itself was impressive. Thanks to the support of Eastman Kodak and specially developed film stock, the format boasted a very tiny pixel size, giving the format lots of digital bandwidth on the film. Audio was recorded without data compression, but instead of the commonly used 16-bit linear PCM scale, it used a custom 12-bit logarithmic scale that produced excellent sound with a 90 dB dynamic range. Despite its clever engineering, CDS suffered from a major shortcoming, that being that the actual recorded digital sound track for 35mm films was placed where the stereo optical track normally resides. In other words, there wasn’t a stereo optical track that could be used as a backup. CDS also suffered from playback equipment problems, which, combined with the absence of a backup track, turned the major filmmakers away from the format.

Optical Radiation’s CDS format should be remembered as the pioneer for today’s digital film sound formats. They were the first to introduce digital audio to the theatre, and the first to implement a discrete version of today’s popular 5.1 technique in a major exhibition format. The impact of the 5.1 format has been tremendous. From an artistic point-of-view, discrete digital sound has been a real boon, as it frees the mixers from the limitations and hassle of mixing audio for the matrix. Full range and discrete surround channels have given the mixers the ability to use these channels much more freely. If one were to listen to the mixes of today and those of 10 years ago, the degree of artistic freedom that the digital formats offer will be obvious.

quote:
The first commercially available digital sound-on-film system for theatrical motion pictures, CDS is gone now. Today we have DTS-Digital, Dolby Digital, and Sony Dynamic Digital Sound. In fact SDDS was designed by some of those who pioneered CDS.

What went wrong? Well opinions here vary. Some would say that the choice to use minimal data reduction and the resulting very small bit (pixel) size made the system much more susceptible to every type of problem including print wear, film lab errors etc. Others will point out the fact that the lack of a backup analog track (In 35mm CDS sound was printed in the same area were the analog optical track would normally go) would forever make CDS a premium process, requiring dual print inventories, not to mention making the occasional breakdown catastrophic and reputation destroying. Some have said the electronics simply wasn't reliable enough for hot projection booths. But everyone agreed on this: When it worked and it really DID work quite well the vast majority of the time, IT SOUNDED GREAT!



[ 03-27-2007, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Brad Miller ]

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-27-2007 01:55 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
John, I had to remove your link because it was half a dozen links all jumbled upon each other and was causing the page to not format properly.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-27-2007 02:06 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks. I saw the problem, and was trying to reformat the link.

Unfortunately, one of my links was on the Film-Tech banned list, but it has a really good CDS summary.

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 03-27-2007 02:24 PM      Profile for Bill Gabel   Email Bill Gabel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Stephen Furley
Was there a 35mm only version of the reader, or did you have to buy the dual-guage version, even if you only ever ran 35?
The only reader available was the 70MM/35mm dual version. Because CDS premiered as a 70MM print format before the 35mm format was ready. And the problems with "Days of Thunder" in 70MM CDS in Los Angeles. Caused by the unit over- heating and the print with no backup track. They lost a major show on opening day. The company never introduced a 35mm only version of the reader. When you ran the CDS format they wanted you to keep track of error codes and print problems on the processor. Another print problem happened with "Dick Tracy" in 70MM CDS, Gilboy in Pico Rivera, CA (film depot). Mixed a few prints or sent the wrong 70MM version the theatres booked. It was about three theatres that it happened to.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 03-27-2007 03:07 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I once saw a reader at Bletchley Park, but I never saw the processor, and I never heard the system. I'm not even sure if it ever had any public shows over here. The reader looked quite nicely engineered.

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Ben Wales
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Southampton. England
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 03-27-2007 03:32 PM      Profile for Ben Wales   Email Ben Wales   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Stephen Furley
I'm not even sure if it ever had any public shows over here. The reader looked quite nicely engineered.

I recall that the AMC 10 Multiplex (now Odeon/UCI) at High Wycombe and and the Warner Theatre in the West End London,but not certain that was the Cinema in London with CDS.

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