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Topic: Technicolor to stop using reel bands

Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 04-09-2004 12:43 AM

Good Riddance! These things are a hold over from the days before tape and no longer have a function. Never were intended to protect anything--at best, what could they protect, the outer 3 feet of the leader, and from what, the inside of the can.

Useless as they are though, I put 'em back on when they're present, they're not mine so it's not my place to toss 'em.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 04-09-2004 01:19 AM

another thing they like to do is put the bands on the reels and not even lable them with a reel number or anything. You have to pull all the bands until you find the first real. Had that problem today. Ets prints were like ok reel one all heads or all tails or mixed up no surprises when you take the bands off because they don't use them.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 04-09-2004 08:55 AM

Since Technicolor has decided to get rid of them anyway when their stock is depleted, I suggest everyone start throwing them away at this point, thus forcing them to use new ones every time a print is shipped back and "integrity *cough* inspected."

Let's all help them deplete their stock as fast as possible and be rid of these damn things.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-09-2004 12:46 PM

I always like the cloth bands that were issued by the Ontario Censor board as the censor approval certificate (hence the local phrase censor bands)They were indistructable and did a good job protecting the film

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-09-2004 01:02 PM

I get the feeling that most of the anti-band comments in this thread are from people who deal mostly with new prints. I think you would be singing a different tune if you got a few used prints with the film spilling all over the place due to non-taped-down ends, broken reels, extra space in the cans because all the trailers are removed, etc. At least the bands WHEN PUT ON PROPERLY keep the film together.

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Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 04-09-2004 02:20 PM

Since the reel bands are gone, will it be possible to have reels with full-length leaders as specified in SMPTE 301?

Protective section, what's that? We're lucky if a reel has 15 feet of leader before the first frame of image.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 04-09-2004 02:56 PM

SMPTE 301:

quote:
Head leader (see figure 1)
5.1 Protective section (head)
The protective section of the leader shall consist of a
minimum of 8 linear feet (2.44 m) of transparent or raw
stock. When the protective leader has been reduced
to a length of 6 linear feet (1.83 m), it shall be restored
to its original length. Logos, trademarks, part titles, or
other extraneous materials, if absolutely necessary,
should be placed in this section.

quote:
7.4 Protective section (tail)
The protective section of the trailer shall consist of a
minimum of 8 linear feet (2.44 m) of transparent or raw
stock. When the protective leader has been reduced
to a length of 6 linear feet (1.83 m), it shall be restored
to its original length. Logos, trademarks, part titles, or
other extraneous materials, if absolutely necessary,
should be placed in this section.

This is IN ADDITION to the identification and syncronizing (countdown) and runout sections of the leaders.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 04-09-2004 03:07 PM

The problem with eliminating the reel bands is that most people are too stupid or careless (your choice) to understand that you can't put a 1 inch piece of tape on the leader and expect it to stick after Airborne kicks the cans across the country. Even worse are the morons who reuse an existing piece of tape and think that it will hold. So by the time the prints get back to the depot, the leaders are unraveled, probably in between various reels and with the current state of reels falling apart and people using cheap platters that does not produce a proper tight wind of the print, a big ol' pile of film spaghetti is found when the cans are opened.

The reel bands should stay, but NOT the ones TES is currently sending out. Those are amazingly bad, as the slightest tug of the string pops the catch off of the band, which defeats the purpose.

Regardless TES has apparently decided to be done with the reel bands. As such the question remains, will they put their identification sticker over the end of the leader as a means to secure the roll, or will they use a piece of Artist's tape for that and put the id sticker 6 inches away so that it is preserved with the print for repeated shipouts?

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John T. Hendrickson, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 889
From: Freehold, NJ, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-09-2004 06:24 PM

Bottom line is that there is a right and wrong way to fasten reel bands. My big gripe is that apparently TES has some employees who simply don't know what they are doing. I had a print come in a couple of weeks back with the reel identifier tape plastered over the fastener and no string whatsoever attached to the fastener.

Other abnormalities abound, as described by others in this post.

I can understand Mike Blakesley's point about getting used prints that are improperly secured. That is simply film done wrong. Many operators do not know how to properly re-attach the bands, or just don't give a [bs]

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-09-2004 08:19 PM

I'm sure this has everything to do with cost, not just the cost of the bands but the labor it costs to put them around reels. It might not seem like much but shaving off a few seconds can add up when dealing with thousands of prints. This next part is PURE speculation but TES also lost a big customer in January-Sony. I've heard rumors on this board of Mirimax ready to make the jumpt to ETS next. I think TES is trying to 'stay competitive.'

Oh, and 'industry stnadard tap'? They probably mean the tape the labs use when they ship the reels to the depots. If you look at a TES reel after you take the paper band off you'll notice the peice of tape that originaly held down the leader until it was borke to add the paper band. I've also noticed that at least on some TES prints there are the ID stickers on the leaders that all ETS prints have-I assume these are put on by the labs.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 04-09-2004 08:53 PM

The labs often use stickers with numbers and bar codes to help track prints and individual reels through lab operations. Usually put on at the wind-up end of the print processing machines. If you have a print problem, the information on this label can often pinpoint all the machines and people that handled the reel to aid in diagnosing the problem.

Note, Kodak's magenta-colored edgeprint serves the same function for Kodak's manufacturing process:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/h1/sizesP.shtml#p

quote:
A description of the identifying codes on tape, can label, and film appears under FILM IDENTIFICATION.

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/h1/identification.shtml#unprocessed

quote:
The twelve-digit code on the label in Figure 45 (5289-489-02101) identifies the film type (5289), the emulsion batch number (489), the roll number and the part of the roll (02101) from which this strip of KODAK VISION 800T Color Negative Film was cut. When an emulsion batch is put together, it is quite large -- too large to be coated onto only one roll of film base. Therefore, it is necessary to coat more than one roll, and all subsequent rolls are numbered in sequential order. So, in this case, the first three digits identify the roll number of this particular emulsion batch. The last two digits identify the roll part. If one roll is coated onto a 6000-foot master roll, each strip can be cut into many individual parts. As an example, the 6000 feet can be cut into three 2,000-foot rolls--part 1, 2, and 3.

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 04-10-2004 05:13 AM

Whats this integrity inspected BS? The labels now say integrity checked....

Josh

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 04-10-2004 09:24 AM

Thomas said:

quote:
Good. It will save us from taking the trash out of the booth more often

A show of hands please for anyone who would actually want Thomas working for them (keep in mind also his comments about customer relations and management/staff relations).

A band is the only thing that is certain to keep the film from spilling. Even good tape is not 100% successful and how many theatres even buy it. Most use masking tape and its inappropriateness has been discussed at length elsewhere. I can't say as I blame TES for getting rid of bands since too many lazy bozos either cut the strings or toss them out entirely. I've found that even a band without a string, taped to itself, holds better than the film taped down to itself. So while it's less work without them (and isn't that what this alleged "craft" has come down to--anything to save 5 seconds here, 30 seconds there) the result will inevitably be more splayed out reels.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 04-10-2004 11:49 AM

Perhaps durable bands could be made out of thick and stiff 35mm polyester leader:

http://www.fpchollywood.com/film-leaders-lab-processing-machine-leaders-blue-polyester-leaders.html

With a rivet and eyelet and some nylon twine, a band made of 7-mil 35mm polyester leader would be a very durable item.

The other possibility would be using the very stiff 35mm perforated polyester leader and splicing it onto the head leader as the protective section specified in SMPTE 301.

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Chris Hipp
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1462
From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas)
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 04-10-2004 12:04 PM

I can't remember ever getting a NEW ETS print that the reels were spilling out. I have received used prints like this. I have recieved NEW TES prints that the reel were spilling out. So, I think that any film damage that occurs will be due to poor film handling and not due to whether they used bands or tape.

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