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Author Topic: Technicolor to stop using reel bands Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-30-2004 07:10 AM                        Does this new policy apply to _all_ prints shipped out of TES, or just new prints? If a theatre ships a print back to the depot with (say) 3" of tape, will it be removed and replaced with (say) 6" of tape? What was so wrong with reel bands, anyway?  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 07-30-2004 09:10 AM                        quote: Brad Miller The management at the depot in Ohio have been working overtime lately trying to get all issues corrected and improve their service.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 07-30-2004 09:45 AM                    I would have retained the bands albeit with better string attachment. But I can see the point that with so many idiots out there cutting the strings, not reusing them and often tossing them altogether it's kind of a waste. Especially if the competition has dropped them and the studios don't wish to pay extra for them. That a proper band and string holds the reel end better than anything else is simply not open to dispute; of course it does. Let's face it, if you were shipping your own personal mint condition print of your favorite film you'd want it banded!  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-30-2004 12:21 PM                        We just got a print of "Terminal" with about 8" of tape on each reel. The tape looked new, so maybe they are retaping each time a reel goes out. If so, ! But bands would still be better.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-30-2004 03:34 PM                     quote: Scott Norwood Does this new policy apply to _all_ prints shipped out of TES, or just new prints? If a theatre ships a print back to the depot with (say) 3" of tape, will it be removed and replaced with (say) 6" of tape? Yes, that is the plan.  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 07-30-2004 06:29 PM                     So, if the bands continued, what could the strings be made of that could not be cut? Kevlar? Wire rope? Then the assholes would tear the bands. The peelability of artists tape makes it too tempting for many to reuse it. There is masking tape that retains it removablilty for several months to a year even in the sun which would make it more practical than artists tape or regular masking tape. Th rolls are about twice as long as artist tape. It costs double what mask tape, but still about a third of artists tape, very sticky too. I haven't used it in the booth yet but plan to give it a trial on other than film, maybe that later.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-30-2004 06:50 PM                        quote: Scott Norwood What was so wrong with reel bands, anyway? Nothing was wrong with them; they were used on prints for decades and everyone knew how to tie a freakin piece of string around a fastener without ripping it (or without whining about having to do it). In years and years in booths, I rarely found prints arriving with all the film unraveled off the reels in a tangled mess of speggetti and I credit reel bands for this. Yet to hear people complain about them now, you would think they were complicated jigsaw puzzles designed to thwart projectionist's incredible efficiency. Granted, the younger guys who only know the TES version of reelbands with that micro thin "string," yes, I can see why they seem to be overly annoyed by them, but the reelband idea is not an intrinsically bad one -- as I said, it worked very well for decades. And let's face it, reelband effectiveness probably shouldn't be judged by TES's version of it. I mean, if we judged the value of reels by the TES version, we would be demanding film be shipped on cores and complaining like wild banshees....oh, we already do that.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-30-2004 07:12 PM                     I agree, the old dark cardboard bands such as used by NFS were fantastic! Even the early version of the TES bands were built well, they would just slice your hand open if you weren't careful. The latest version of the TES bands were not reinforced on the backside though and would rip after about 1 use. It is also important to note that the vast majority of all prints never see a second playdate. Tape works well provided the depots use enough of it (5 inches of 3/4") and that the theaters are professional enough to do the same upon return.  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 07-31-2004 12:11 AM                     Reel bands made from Tyvek would retain the rivet and probably last longer than the print would be in service.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-31-2004 11:05 AM                        Good idea, Bill. A very substantial reelband that was used by Films, Inc. and Swank on their 16mm prints were made, not of paper, but of a strip of flexable plastic with a kind of a spring clip on the end, no string needed. Thing is, there are probably plenty of better designes and alternatives but let's face it, the industry isn't worried about print life. Of the thousands of prints struck for each release, how many of them ever play past first run? And given the quality of today's releases, how many of the titles have any life in second run or in the retrospective repetory? Hell, I wonder how some of them have a life after the first weekend. So it is not surprising that a better reelband is the furthest thing from the concerns of distribution. I am sure there are more pressing issues for them -- like who charges the least to bandsaw and dispose of prints, 90% of which never get to play a second projection booth after their first run. It would be interesting to document out of the number of theatres that play a given title when it breaks wide, how many of those say 2000, 3000 prints actually play secondary theatres...maybe 10%, 5%, 1%? My guess is that it would be a very small number. My guess also is, no one is worried about what winds up in those few theatres that do play titles after their initial runs.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-31-2004 12:44 PM                        A "wide" release can vary greatly. "Spider-Man 2" played virtually everywhere, so I'm sure that the majority of those prints will never see a second booth. But when you have a more "normal" release that is considered "wide," but not "blown out" to every possibly location, the number of re-used prints would be much greater if the film is popular. "Big Fat Greek Wedding" comes to mind.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-01-2004 08:10 AM                        This process must have been in place for at least a couple of weeks, then. This weekend, I ran three (different) prints shipped out of TES. All had been previously shown and two of the three had been plattered (leaders removed and, in these cases, reattached with masking tape ). They all arrived with about 6" of 1/2"-wide artist tape holding the leaders down. In some cases, this tape was applied _over_ the tape used by the previous theatre. I would have preferred bands, but the tape did seem to do an adequate job of keeping the film from unraveling in transit.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 08-01-2004 10:21 AM                    How about Tyvek or other strong material and Velcro as the closure?  |  IP: Logged Thomas Procyk Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1842 From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 08-01-2004 11:35 AM                     quote: Frank Angel was the last to post What was so wrong with reel bands, anyway? Everyone seems to live by the fact that the reel bands caused ZERO problems and worked PERFECTLY every time. More lies. I can't even count the number of times I got a print with the damn string either wrapped around the hub of the reel, or wrapped around the reel next to it, or somehow intwined with film from other reels, or the bands attached with tape, or loose to the point of spilling out everywhere, or the strings hanging out of the cans when the prints arrive or the string catches hanging on by a whisker.... And this was on NEW, FIRST-RUN prints!! If the bands were sturdy as some have said they used to be or shoudl be, and if the people at the depot would care enough to properly attach them, then maybe, just maybe, I would have cared enough to re-attach them. I used to always re-attach them until it got to the point where I was taking more care with the reel bands then with the print itself. And thus, they became nothing more than "wrapping paper" that the prints came with, and were discarded as such. When they came in good shape and were reusable, I would do my best to send the print out with them. But that was a very, very rare occasion. If I had a lab-mint print of MY feature, I wouldn't want the reel bands used. Instead, I would much prefer the full SMPTE countdown leader with an extra 10-15 feet on the head. Polygram used to do this. But that's just me. =TMP=  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 08-01-2004 05:12 PM                    I don't recall any of us advocating crappy bands (such as those where the button pops off at the slightest tug) or bands misapplied. Your print with lots of extra leader will still need to be held down. Tape's track record in this is spotty so you're just as likely to open it and find one or more reels splooged (to borrow Ken's term for capacitor disembowelment) all over. I'd prefer a band and I think you would too.  |  IP: Logged

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