my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Building Prints Questions. (Page 4)

This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6

Author Topic: Building Prints Questions. Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-09-2004 06:32 PM                        Do cues really wear off?? I use a junk film drag strip at the end of all my prints, and I put the dowser-close cue at the beginning of that strip. I don't have to replace that cue except maybe once every two years, if that. I think it wears off from handling (it's right next to the splice) more than anything. Maybe there are different durabilities of cue tape? I have no idea what kind we're using here....it had no brand name on it, so it could be crap, but it works.  |  IP: Logged Jason Miller Expert Film Handler Posts: 241 From: Little Rock, AR, Registered: Mar 2004 posted 12-10-2004 02:44 AM                    foil cues WILL wear over time, especially if they are on the sections of film that contact metal like sprockets and film bands. they dont wear out as quickly as 2 weeks (which I read somewhere should be the frequency of replacing cues), but they will eventually lose their metal. it could very well be the brand we were using, because after about 4-5 weeks they cues looked more gray than silver. but putting the clear splice over them made them last forever.  |  IP: Logged Ever Gonzalez Film Handler Posts: 29 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-10-2004 04:11 AM                     We once received cue tape that came in rolls and they wore out within days! One good advantage to that is that it showed all my projectionist how to change out cues. The bad side was the complaints of the house lights still being up during the show or down for the credits. We use the cues that come in strips on little sheets. I can't remember the brand name though. We cut them into 1 inch peices and it is rare for them to wear out. It is company policy to mark each reel. We use sharpie markers which do not bleed and I toss those markers that no longer have a sharp point. The SDDS has enough edge for you to mark on and not have any information covered if you do it right. However, one practice we do use is using a white China Marker to mark each splice right before tearing down a print. Very visible no matter how dark your booth is and our booth is very dark. We use the blooping method as well at each splice. I want to get our splicers done like I saw on this site to cut each reel / trailer with an overlap. That is a great idea.  |  IP: Logged Barry Martin Expert Film Handler Posts: 203 From: Newington, CT USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 12-10-2004 05:01 AM                        Evan, I would seriously consider talking to your "company" or any representative thereof about "marking" reels. It is COMPLETELY unneccessary. I could break down a print blindfolded. Just like Dominic said, you can feel the splice coming, so you're eyes are not needed at all. There are also several ways to make breaking down easier in the tips section such as a "fill line" marked onto tape on each reel or you could just use a piece of tape on top of the film while it is on the platter, find the splice (if dark use a flashlight or worklight) and there is your marker. Film should always leave your theater the way it came in, or better when possible! You may mark without any "damage" done, but the practice in general is bad for projection. I just had a print of Shall We Dance come through with crappy white shoe polish or white-out or something used and not just 3-4 inches for visiibility, try 2 feet or so. Such a bad job was done of it and the material so poor that the white crap flaked and re-adhered to other parts of the film and in the picture area. If the company you work for wants this to save time (payroll) for breakdown, simply explain that by cutting the time taken to carefully mark the film as you suggest it balances out. Just my thoughts, for what they're worth.  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 12-10-2004 07:57 AM                     I dont see why there has always been an issue with marking the prints. I have been a projectionist for 15 years and have never marked prints. I have no problem using zebra tape and finding the splice.  |  IP: Logged Ever Gonzalez Film Handler Posts: 29 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-10-2004 08:59 PM                     Barry did you mean Ever? Out of the 5 years of building prints (doesn't match your 15 though) I have never had any problems with marking reels. We don't use shoe polish or white out, so there is no flaking. The China Marker, which is better described as more like a crayon is actually used to mark the actual splice. When you peel the tape off the mark goes with it. Perfect example is when I tore down our last print of "Along Came Polly" by accident. It didn't play for 2 days and it was back on the schedule the 3rd day, so I had to rebuild it. There was no evidence of any "debris" in the projector or any sound drop outs. I can easily tear down prints without this, but with all the projectionist who come and go it is a reliable tool that they can depend on. Especially when it is not me who does the actual tear down. This will change though, I will be present more often during tear down shifts. We have many screenings a week and we do receive our own prints back as the prints we end up keeping. I build every friday morning and the use of the China Marker has no impact on the actual print and its presentation quality. I have received prints that had zebra tape used for when the heat splices were removed. I thought it looked terrible on screen and we call that type of tape "Regal Tape." Correct me if I am wrong. I feel that this forum is a good source of knowledge and is doing its job. Everything I have learned in the projection booth was from trial and error. I was not trained to do most of this stuff. The booth was lacking when I was trained way back when, so this is what has worked the best for me with keeping film quality.  |  IP: Logged Jason Miller Expert Film Handler Posts: 241 From: Little Rock, AR, Registered: Mar 2004 posted 12-10-2004 09:15 PM                    I did notice occasionally when the projectionists used china markers on the spilces that the marker would transfer to the layer of film that was wrapped ovcer it on the platter. booth tape on the top of the print to mark splices is a good visual aid for those that cant feel splices.. but you have to be able to see the splices in the print sitting on the platter. silver markers and shoe polish is grounds for a swift kick in the nuts.  |  IP: Logged Chase Hanson Expert Film Handler Posts: 172 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-10-2004 09:24 PM                     quote: Barry Martin I would seriously consider talking to your "company" or any representative thereof about "marking" reels. It is COMPLETELY unneccessary. I would highly recommend working in "our" booth, before you go around telling "us" what is and is not necessary.  |  IP: Logged Ever Gonzalez Film Handler Posts: 29 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-10-2004 09:57 PM                     Tearing down prints is the same in all booths Chase. Only difference is the equipment. Also, I agree that using tape is an alternative for marking reels, but the idea of having a free peices of tape around is not a good idea in my books. I can't trust that the projectionist will throw away the tape after they are done. I have a saying that, "Tape is our best friend, but also our enemy." I really can't see anything wrong with the use of the China Marker.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-11-2004 02:19 AM                     I worked in a circuit where all we had was clear tape-and no marking allowed. But, we were shown that each reel has it's own from of "marking" - as you notice on the film winds on the platter, the different "textured" look from each reel (granted, when a lab splice is done within a reel, that messes things up some..), so I was able to see the splices come from the platter deck to the MUT by when the shade of texture was ending for that particular reel. But, there was another trick - take a piece of masking tape, and lay that masking tape in front of the splice on the film wind, then when the edge of the masking tape was coming to the end of the wind, you know your splice was coming close-for you to slow that MUT down and catch that splice as it comes around.  |  IP: Logged Dustin Mitchell Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1865 From: Mondovi, WI, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 12-11-2004 02:32 AM                     Wait, your cross cues are wearing off?! That shouldn't happen. Now edge cues, those can wear.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-11-2004 03:39 AM                     Monte's post above is getting to the meat of this. Any professional projectionist should be able to break a print down without ANY markings on the print, and without colored/zebra tape. (By the way, the tip of marking the "fill line" solves the issue of a reel with a lab splice.) If you work one of my booths, you will be greeted with ULTRASONIC splices joining the reels, so you can't even cheat by the obvious feel of a tape splice. It's all a matter of knowing the proper way to break a print down. Remember, you NEVER physically "look" for the splice. If you are using your eyes other than to get a general ballpark of how much more film needs to wind off onto the shipping reel, you are doing it wrong. (Yes I will some day make a tips page or video showing this.) Dustin, I've never had a problem with edge cues, and I've never covered them with splicing tape. The trick is to use Neumade Aucuta II cue tape, and make sure your projectors are not scuffing the edges (such as a pad roller that is too tight).  |  IP: Logged Dustin Mitchell Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1865 From: Mondovi, WI, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 12-11-2004 03:55 AM                     Well, yes, technically they shouldn't, but edge cues wearing would be more understandable than cross cues wearing. If one's cross cues are wearing there are some pretty serious issues with one's projectors.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-11-2004 04:44 AM                     Thx, Brad for your support. It's neat knowing that if one use their eyes and use them keenly, it's amazing on what we can learn. Yes, coming from the days of shoe polish procedures (in which I even perfected that old trait by just shoepolishing a couple feet of that white stuff on the emulsion side of the edge-not just slop that goo on. And with that perfected trick, I never any flaking in the print and that white stayed on throughout the entire run of the film, and that was 20 plus years ago. Then on to zebra-tape useage, which was okey, but using CIRO splicers with the 5-hole punch and die arragement, it was a trick to get that zebra line on the frame line of a scope print to do a decent punch. Then, onto the clear stuff as mentioned before, and by that time, I've learned more tricks, after being shown as mentioned above, on just seeing the reel changes by the textured traits of each reel on the platter wind. If I have a reel loaded with a lab splice, I mark the holddown tape that is securing the head leaders of these notices, and mark the tape if I have a short reel less than 10 minutes long, so I can be more attentive of that splice coming around quicker than expected. Granted, I've made mention of me using "Edgemark Tape" - the yellow tape, the same width as cue tape, that one puts on the edge of the film, by folding over covering just the entire surface prior to the sprocket row. I do this, for the circuit that I work for now, has operators that are dependent and trained in using this material. Otherwise, I'd be STILL using just the clear and my eyes. Just something that I've mastered quite easily. Lots of little tricks that I've developed in my time..and nobody showed, or trained me of this. I'll have to tell everybody of a trick that I do, the splice can hold for weeks, and I know that I'll get some buzz and gaw on this and that is: when I draw my tape across the splice, I stop the tape right after the soundtrack and before the sprocket row, then press and punch. Turn the film over, draw the tape to the edge of the print scene and before the sprocket row, then press and punch. Granted, this is not a complete splice where one draws the tape completely across, but.. the spice goes through the machine so much quieter, absolutely no frame hop-like a clean changeover, easier to punch since the punch is doing one set of holes on each side, and I've never had any of these splices fail, nor stretch on me when I do this..and I've been doing this for years. I always try to find a way to make splices that if the splice was never there in the first place. And this trick above, to me and my presentations, works the best. I know it's not a professional way within the realms of the Projectionist's world, but it works for me and works well. Please, forgive me of my comments of the new TECH reels-their design, and other reels where people needs to mark the reels with the tape for making the mark where the reel fill line is to be, for I've just never had to reply on that being self trained, once again, to use my eyes "keenly." How about the "blade" cue sensors of the Ballantyne Pro35 setup, the old Cinemeccanica V-8 EPRAD lower sprocket pad sensor, and before that, the vertical roller trips that were stock on the V-8 setups? Thx for listening - Monte  |  IP: Logged Thomas King Expert Film Handler Posts: 119 From: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-11-2004 08:08 AM                        I mark splices with a chinagraph line on the splicing tape over the join, and I also run the marker along the top of the splice (soundtrack edge) so I can see where it lies on the platter. Evidently some people mark a lot more of the soundtrack edge, which to my mind isn't really beneficial as it doesn't make it that much easier to see, and it obscures the SDDS soundtrack and gets gunk on the actual feature.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.