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Author Topic: Building Prints Questions. Chris Trainor Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Greenville, RI, USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-11-2004 12:45 PM                        I've always liked the Edgemark tape. Thin little tape that you put about an inch of near the splice on the outside edge of the film. Doesn't fall off, doesn't cause any jumps or other issues in the projector and is highly noticable. That way I can use clear tape for the actual reel changes and all you here is the slight 'click' in the projector when it runs thru... nothing on screen. Of course, this stuff isn't an option if your running SDDS, as it will cause a dropout. --Chris  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-11-2004 01:17 PM                     I like Edgemark too. But it DOES cause a small jump in the picture when it goes through. The trick is to use a small piece of it, only 1 frame/4 sprockets long and to place it near enough to the splice so that the distance from splice to Edgemark is less than the length of your projector gate. That way, when the splice goes through it makes a jump in the picture before the Edgemark hits. Any jump the Edgemark makes will be covered by the jump from the splice. I don't know any projector that doesn't jump at least a LITTLE BIT when a tape splice goes through. After a few months of working with film, most of my students get used to finding the splices on break-down and don't need the Edgemark tape anymore. They just seem to spontaneously stop using it. Thus, the reason why I call Edgemark tape "Training Wheels".  |  IP: Logged Chase Hanson Expert Film Handler Posts: 172 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-11-2004 02:41 PM                     quote: Ever Gonzalez Tearing down prints is the same in all booths Chase. Only difference is the equipment. The process is the same, every booth is constructed differently. Process + Enviornment defines necessity...not process alone.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-11-2004 02:51 PM                     On my Edgemark usage: where the film is cut, I place the Edgemark one sprocket below the cut, then when the splice is in the die, the tape is drawn over the leading edge of the Edgemark so the leading edge doesn't want to peel off in the trap. I do this for the sake of what I've shown the other operator/employees at this theatre and the other circuit's theatres, otherwise it'd be like below the splice line as with the other member's post of his technique. Before, those employees would put INCHES up INCHES of that stuff, fold it over so horribly, where it would actually peel off in the trap and have their usual set of problems that they like to encounter by not listening. Kids-can't teach them anything.  |  IP: Logged William Valdes Film Handler Posts: 37 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Sep 2004 posted 12-11-2004 06:25 PM                     quote: Ever Gonzalez Everything I have learned in the projection booth was from trial and error. I'm not sure about most theaters, but this seems to be the case in the theater Ever, Chase, and I work for. I'm quite certain that we've been responsible for crap tear-downs before. The reason for this is because we are not always given enough training. One of the last employees I trained was called down to work the concession stand instead of being able to train in the booth as scheduled. This employee was not given a make-up training shift either. Sometimes this leads beginners to improvise until they learn the correct way. This site is a great resource of information and I now make a point of referring people to this site and have even had several trainees read the "Improving your on screen presentation" document on the tips page. We have it printed out and posted at our booth.  |  IP: Logged Barry Martin Expert Film Handler Posts: 203 From: Newington, CT USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 12-11-2004 11:08 PM                        Ever, sorry about the name mixup, I worked 5pm-5am that night and I guess I was a bit too tired to see straight. I'm actually not familiar with China Marker, it was never used by the theaters I worked so I just haven't seen it, unless it's come by me on a previously run print and identified as "mystery substance used to mark changes" I believe Jason posted about seeing China Marker transfer to other layers of film. In a similar experience: I tried the sharpie over the splice once (before learning of the tip where you create a slight overlap in splices) to black out the gap created by a real shitty splicer. I marked across the splice on both sides. After I flipped the film over to splice/mark the other side I lifted the film up to start winding onto the bench and there was a black line on both sides of my splicer! So yes even sharpie can bleed (at least for a little bit). I'm not sure where you got my "15 years" experience, I wouldda been 9 when I started I've been handling film since '99 so I'm almost at my six year mark in the booth, but with almost a 2 year hiatus. Only thing that really helped me learn hands on fast was that we ran 4-6 shows/day on each of our 20 projectors with one operator so I was getting plenty of practice and the "rare problems" happened at least once for me instead of only hearing about it. To anyone else that has replied here about their way and if I have confronted it, just let me say you are doing the right thing for your job by coming here to learn. I'm happy you're here because it increases the chances my used films may come through in good-best condition. So a big However, that dedication to come here and discover new, possibly better ways to do things for yourself has got to be open-minded. I think Brad once said he gives every product/way of doing things a fair try and evaluates it before commenting. You gotta try it to know for sure. I myself was fairly set in many bad practices given to me by Loews. From Zebra tape to excessive ID frames. I've tried to improve after reading things through here, and almost have the hang of "threading up" in less than 5 minutes (3 years of "threading down" is a hard habit to break). As far as every booth being different, there is no reason why in any booth you could not breakdown a print without marking film. Either the fill line tip or simple use of a mag-lite and a piece of masking tape on top of the film on the platter to mark the reel changes. If you guys want people to understand and even accept your ideas of what's best for you, you need to back them up with examples. Don't just say "not every booth is the same" come out and say why it's difficult/impossible for you to try these suggestions from everyone and perhaps they can come back and give you solutions that will make your jobs (and those that receive your prints) EASIER. If I was forced to mark my reel changes I would consider it a big pain in the ass extra step that wasn't necessary and cost me more of my time. From my experiences posting here nobody is trying to "come down on you" or scold you, saying "FOR SHAME". They are just asking "Why?". Anyways, my happy-can't we get along-post for the day, good luck with your print work, and keep listening to the REEL pros here.  |  IP: Logged Chase Hanson Expert Film Handler Posts: 172 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-12-2004 03:17 AM                     quote: William Valdes Sometimes this leads beginners to improvise until they learn the correct way. No joke, it was over 6 months before I ever recieved a "Build up" training shift. I had built about a dozen prints before that. The booth manager at the time had THE most priceless look on their face when I finally asked for a build up shift. Ohh yeah, As for why I "need" to have reel changeovers marked. I have 20/45 vision in one eye, and 20/60 w/astigmatism with the other. If a wear my glasses and squint really hard in a well lit room a plattered print has texture, if I dont have a well lit room/dont wear glasses, its just a fuzzy green donut with a black blob in the middle. When I did tear down, I averaged 5 prints a night. Of those 5 prints I was tearing 4 down using my own personal flashlight and the 10w lamp built into the base of each platter arm on our strong units (if the bulb wasnt burnt out). Our port glasses are friggin huge (at least 10 sq. ft) so pretty much any light you turn on shines into at least one auditorium in some places three. I used to tear down using the "feeler" method, but since I rarely tear down a print I built...and digging up a "Build Up Sheet" for every print I have to tear down (assuming the person building it, A: filled it out properly B: Filled it out at all) to find out roughly how many other non-reel changeover splices are going to be in each reel, it proved to be less effective than using the existing marks. Reguardless of my personal short comings, every person I've taught to teardown learns how to read the "textures" and learns how to feel for splices both chem and tape on a plattered print top and side. They might regularly use only one tool, but they are taught how to use them all.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-12-2004 04:17 AM                     Do you wear glasses or have other corrective assistance with your vision? Seeing all of these breakdown threads has made it painfully clear to me that the most needed thing right now is a detailed video showing how to buildup and breakdown, and there will probably need to be different versions available as well for different makes and models of platters. The buildup page is somewhat helpful, but actual video would show things much more easier. The next time I can get Joe down to Texas, we will shoot this and make it available for free download. (No, not a joke video, but a real training video.) It's going to be quite an undertaking though, so give us a little time. After you have viewed it, I promise you won't need to mark the film in any way, and you will be able to find the splices with your eyes closed...literally.  |  IP: Logged Chase Hanson Expert Film Handler Posts: 172 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-12-2004 04:42 AM                     I wear my glasses pretty much the entire time im in the booth.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 12-12-2004 09:58 AM                    Please remove ANY AND ALL CRAP you put on the film. Edgemarking tape...cues...all of it. You stand a better chance of getting it off without residue than someone days or months later. Nothing like having a film come to a nice ending, fade to black, and at the very moment the director's name comes up it goes through what looks like an incompetent projectionist doing a massive focus rack because of some stupid, poorly positioned lights-up cue. Or where you're not really supposed to know the film is ending exactly now except that this fact was telegraphed two seconds early because you see the cue go by on screen. Ditto the little sideways and focus shift that edgetape causes because lazy operators need to save 5 seconds per reel on breakdown. Yes, that means you, Classic Cinemas Elk Grove Theatre, Elk Grove Village, Illinois, which unfortunately does most of the exhibitor previews in my area which in turn means I am often screening prints they have "augmented" with the lazy tape and of course do not remove. Others may like to run films that way; I don't and I can assure you the filmmakers don't either.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-12-2004 04:57 PM                        Gee, Steve....don't hold back....tell us what you REALLY think!  |  IP: Logged Ever Gonzalez Film Handler Posts: 29 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-12-2004 06:14 PM                     A video would be great. I have already directed my projectionist to this site (as you can probably tell) and they always have something to say about this site when I go back to my actual "home theatre." Makes me feel good that they are actually taking the time to learn. It is working and I thank you Brad and those who help in running this site. Barry, I have no idea where I got the 15 years from. I probably saw it somewhere and it just got thrown in there. I feel you and I have been in the same situations before running booth by ourselves and learning our mistakes when things get hectic and you having to be the only one booth trained in the entire building. You and I both started booth in 99 so we are in the same boat (probably) in experience. I try to show my projectionist on how to actually deal with film. For a while there nobody knew what to do if they ever experienced a brain wrap. It was rare for one to happen at our theatre and when one did happen when the brain died, the projectionist there had no idea how to fix it. I did a booth meeting and got 3 reels of a built up destroyed print that we still had in the building and threw it on the ground to show them how to properly (in a way I learned by experience) put back together a dropped print. (our theatre is a prototype theatre built shortly after the Grand 24 and we actually have to tilt prints to get them through 2 projectors back to back and we have stairs in the booth - so dropped prints are a concern) After that was done we did the brain wrap scenerio. It was very beneficial. So I am curious..... what is the proper way to fix a dropped print? I know not dropping it to begin with is the answer, but we know that not every projectionist is the sharpest knife of the bunch. I feel there are several ways depending on how bad the film is intangled. Should I just make this as a new topic?  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-12-2004 06:41 PM                     At this circuit that I work with now, I created a "booth operator's manual" - pertaining to on how to operate the equipment in our circuit. In the section of the "make and break" was the one where I did the most extensive photoshoots (with a digital camera) on the elaborate methods of assemblying prints together from inspecting the cans when they arrive at each theatre, to the completed film winds on the platter. That was quite a bit of work to assemble that section of the manual, for before, there wasn't any form of organized method in the "make and break" department-the other booth employees were just "winging" it as unorganized as they were. thx-Monte  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-12-2004 08:48 PM                     Ever, somewhere in the archives I explained the proper way to pick up a dropped print. Maybe you can find it in a search. Basically it entails picking up the "clumps" (as large as you can) and putting them on a platter, threading the film through the brain and using the MUT to pull it through the brain (at relatively low speed of course) onto a reel. You ONLY cut the film at a camera cut, and you always cut 2 perforations away from the negative splice. This gives you 1/2 of an ID frame, such that when it is spliced back together in the mess that it is, you have a quick absolute knowing you are getting it back in the proper order. (Of course you trim the two perfs on either side of the cut for a proper splice, thus losing one frame. This is less noticeable than any other method.) Anyway, once you have all of the film off of the floor and onto reels, everything will be "tails out". At that point start building backwards onto large reels with the obvious "last reel" (end credits). When you get to the beginning of that reel, simply match up the 1/2 ID frame, make your repair splice and repeat until you get to the beginning of the movie, then re-platter. Perhaps if someone would send me a print of Anchorman, I could build it up and then throw it on the floor and shoot a video showing how this is done.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-12-2004 09:05 PM                     Interesting. In that one comedy video that your team produced showing that one fellow scooping a print from the top deck of an AW3R, without clamps or a board, and then allowing the print to fall on him as he was falling down himself. What was that print anywho? Something that was going to be sent back to the lab in a huge trash bag to be destroyed, since I'm sure that print wasn't destined to be "sectioned" off on the platter to be mounted back on the reel, (in which I've had to do that a couple of times, both myself and in instruction to the operators when they deem to forget to check to see if there is a center ring before wizzing off the print to the MUT..)being the mess that was created as that print completely disassociated itself from being round when it and the fellow hit the floor? Yea, you can build "Team Police" along with "Anchorman" and toss both of them on the floor..lol - thx Monte  |  IP: Logged

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