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Topic: How to thread leader, which way is correct?

Cam Jones
Film Handler

Posts: 35
From: Calgary, AB, Canada
Registered: Sep 2004

posted 04-15-2005 11:43 AM

"He threaded up the platter first, but did not go over to the projector, just payout then straight to take-up (all done very fast). He then swiftly pulled some film over to the projector and threaded it real fast. That was it. Oh he did power up the lamp and run the motor for 5 seconds…. I guess to see if it was in frame?

How common is this practice?
"

Powered up the lamp eh? That's kind of strange. I'd run the motor to advance the slice to the proper location so the changeover would open at the exact right spot on the film but never run the lamp. You should be able to tell if the picture will be in frame or not without powering on the lamp!

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Jannette McQueen
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 04-15-2005 12:10 PM

quote: Cam Jones was the last to post
He threaded up the platter first, but did not go over to the projector, just payout then straight to take-up (all done very fast). He then swiftly pulled some film over to the projector and threaded it real fast. That was it. Oh he did power up the lamp and run the motor for 5 seconds…. I guess to see if it was in frame?

I knew someone who threaded like that, but it would only work well if (when you're facing the screen) the platter is on the right hand side of the projector. But never have I seen anyone fire up the lamp to check framing. That's why framing lights exist, and even if they're burnt out, you should have some kind of work light to be able to see something as obvious as framlines of a leader.

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James R. Hammonds, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 931
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-15-2005 12:13 PM

Some people strike the lamp because they like to "warm up" the lamp before the show starts.
With good equipment, there is no need for it.
I agree that it shouldn't be necessary for checking your framing.
There should already be enough light available for that.

Did he thread without getting the film, on the floor?
If he didn't then his method is unacceptable.
I'm not really impressed with quick threading.
On the other hand, I can't stand very slow threading either.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-15-2005 01:45 PM

In single-screen venues with xenon, I always strike the lamp(s) about ten minutes before the show (with the hand douser closed, of course). This allows the lamp to warm up (xenons do change color temperature over the first few minutes of operation) and also gives time to change a bulb or troubleshoot the problem if something goes wrong.

This isn't practical in a multiplex with automation, but I try to do it when running shows manually.

Does Richard have automation at his drive-in or is he running the show manually? If he is running the show manually, then there is no reason to motor the leader down ahead of time at all. That just puts unnecessary stress on the motor and gears. Advancing a few frames manually would be sufficient to verify loop sizes and platter feed/takeup.

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David Graham Rose
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 187
From: Cambridge, UK
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 04-15-2005 02:03 PM

Greetings Richard

Was it you we saw across the pond here in the United Kingdom BBC televisual extravaganza that is 'The Office'?

David

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 04-15-2005 04:32 PM

quote: Matthew Peters
Oh he did power up the lamp and run the motor for 5 seconds…. I guess to see if it was in frame?

Lemme guess, it was a Kinoton booth, right? For some reason the factory default is to burn the lamp anytime the motor is on. [Roll Eyes]

quote: Scott Norwood
If he is running the show manually, then there is no reason to motor the leader down ahead of time at all. That just puts unnecessary stress on the motor and gears. Advancing a few frames manually would be sufficient to verify loop sizes and platter feed/takeup.

Richard, listen to Scotty. Scotty knows!

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Charlie Frisby
Film Handler

Posts: 58
From: Guymon, Ok USA, org. from DFW
Registered: Dec 2004

posted 04-15-2005 07:33 PM

Can i get a show of hand of who threads up backwards. I am quite curious.

Is it the professional way to do it, Brad?

We keep out carpet pretty clean but I would hate to think I am reasonable for getting film dirty.

We frame up on the six marker.

Frisby

*EDIT*
I guess i answered my own question Brad. I found this on the tips page.

The proper way to thread-up is to thread the film through the rollers, bypassing the projector and lower magazine roller, all the way to the take-up platter. Then “thread-up” the projector literally. Start by sliding the film onto the lower magazine roller, being careful to keep back tension against the take-up platter so it will not come into contact with the floor. Then thread through the failsafe, soundhead, projector and finally any digital sound readers. One fair note of warning: learning to thread this way after years of the “old school” practices will be difficult and will take a week or two of practice. Once mastered however, will cut your threading time down by up to 50% without losing any accuracy.

[ 04-15-2005, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: Charlie Frisby ]

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Matthew Peters
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 179
From: Glen Waverley, Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 04-15-2005 11:33 PM

quote: James R. Hammonds, Jr
Did he thread without getting the film, on the floor?

Nothing touched the floor. However the floor was literally “sparkling”. VIP ticket holders use the booth as a foyer, or depending on how you look at it, they use the VIP foyer as a booth.

As a customer I could have walked right over to the projector and done anything, - turn the volume on full blast – anything (not that I would). I asked them about that, only one incident he could recall. Someone just walked over to the projector and cut the film with a pair of scissors.

quote: Brad Miller
Lemme guess, it was a Kinoton booth, right? For some reason the factory default is to burn the lamp anytime the motor is on.

Looked like a Christie Package.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 04-15-2005 11:45 PM

Probably a Christie package with a CA21 then. The Christie breakout board couples the motor and lamp together too. Completely retarded! You have to wire around it to prevent that.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 04-16-2005 02:37 AM

quote: Charlie Frisby
Can I get a show of hand of who threads up backwards. I am quite curious.

..to be honest, I've never heard of this practice until I came here on FT and saw the "Threading Tips" in the "TIPS" section of a P35GPS shown being threaded backwards.

So, I took this curiousity of seeing if I can do this, only on a Simplex 1050/5 star layout. After a couple of tries with it and getting a system down on how much film to be had in the projector area to make the lower loop the right size on the first wack, it really isn't that hard to do-might be slower than lacing forward, but it still works.

Then, I showed the other MO's on this and see if they can lace a machine backwards, and some of them really had no probs with it, even on the first wack, where others say "No Way, Josay - too confusing".

But have to admit, it can tax the brain a bit in having to think backwards in doing things when you've done forwards for 35 yrs.

If I ever go back as a booth presentation manager at a huge megascreen complex, I just might make this policy for the booth operations of that complex. Right now at a discount house where I just work to keep a job and really have not that much say what goes on, I'm not going to change things around-just leave it alone. But I still, on occasion, lace backwards to keep in practice.

-Monte

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Charlie Frisby
Film Handler

Posts: 58
From: Guymon, Ok USA, org. from DFW
Registered: Dec 2004

posted 04-16-2005 12:19 PM

Well last night after I posted, I threaded "up" our simplexs and damn. The first few caused a headach, and I somhow threaded it soundtrack in, but cought myself half way through. By number 8 I was knocken 'em down pretty quick, but no where near as fast as "cheating".

Maybe after a few weeks I'll be much better and our commercials much cleaner.

I really wish I had learned this way.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 04-16-2005 12:47 PM

I'm not criticizing anyone who threads backwards (i.e. bottom-to-top) but I tried it for something like a week and just could not get into it. Sure, I can do it but it doesn't feel right and -- what can I say? -- I approach projection with a certain amount of emotion and sensitivity.

So I simply have to start at the gate. Then I thread anything above the gate, followed by everything below it.

But, then again, I know how much film to pull so that I don't have a pile of "slack" on the ground. Once in a while a frame or two would "bounce" down and touch the floor while I was working but I also had really long threading leaders with nearly 60 feet between the threading segment and the first frame of picture.

Oh, yeah! The clothespin tip is a good one.

...That was when I worked in multiplexes with platters. These days I've been having lots of fun running changeovers and the leader never touches the floor. I use a technique that Scott Norwood showed me when I was in Boston.

(I'm sure he thought I was just looking at his ass the whole time but that wasn't the case. I was paying attention to what he was showing me. Thanks, Scott!)

Not that the leaders on these used prints are in mint condition -- hardly! -- but two "wrongs" do not make a "right." There is no sense in being a contributor to the demise of previously abused leaders.

But I digress! Getting back to threading practices...

Up or down, it doesn't matter to me -- as long as you're not damaging film. I'm sure we have some members here who are PERFECT LIKE ME and thread the "old" way without causing harm and then I'm absolutely certain there are those who do it Brad's way and still somehow manage to wreak havoc with their prints.

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Charlie Frisby
Film Handler

Posts: 58
From: Guymon, Ok USA, org. from DFW
Registered: Dec 2004

posted 04-16-2005 01:43 PM

quote: Manny Knowles
I'm sure we have some members here who are PERFECT LIKE ME and thread the "old" way without causing harm and then I'm absolutely certain there are those who do it Brad's way and still somehow manage to wreak havoc with their prints.

So you are saying... dirty leaders do not damage flim...but dirty projectionist.

Hehe

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 04-16-2005 04:22 PM

Course, the trick about lacing backwards, is to have the platter completely laced with the film forming a "square" from platter to upper guidance roller, then straight down to the bottom guidance roller then onto the platter's bottom roller.

Then, start from the bottom up, pulling the film from the payout platter, hooking the film across the lowest sprocket before the failsafe assembly, and the film going across the two bottom rollers never move and never touching the floor.

It's a twister for sure..lol

-Monte

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-16-2005 04:39 PM

charlie said "So you are saying... dirty leaders do not damage flim...but dirty projectionist'
no it should read Dirty Minded Projectionists

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