Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: How to thread leader, which way is correct?

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Topic: How to thread leader, which way is correct?

Charlie Frisby
Film Handler

Posts: 58
From: Guymon, Ok USA, org. from DFW
Registered: Dec 2004

posted 04-16-2005 04:46 PM

EWWWW!

the possibilities *cough* PHIL *cough* *cough*, are endless.

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Phil Blake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 558
From: esperance western australia
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 04-19-2005 07:04 AM

I still thread up the same way I dis during the change over days.

Thread with 10 in the aperture , wind the film through the machine by hand to 7 and the automation starts it from there.

This ensures the film is sitting correctly in the path before the machine starts and leave enough film behind the gate to get everything up and running before the picture on cue happens.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 04-19-2005 07:23 AM

Phil, you might want to read the thread before responding because your response looks like you are replying after reading only the title of the thread, not the content. [Wink]

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Kevin Wale
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 167
From: Guymon, OK USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 04-20-2005 05:55 PM

Lacing the projector has a bit to do with what projector it is too. Especially the sound head. 5 stars are great for threading bottom to top because if you have the intermittent in the propper position, and you have the swing arm in the center with the sound trap closed, you'll thread through the film trap perfectly every time. The older simplex soundheads don't work out quite that well. With those, I thread from intermittant out. Either way, I always engage the takeup deck with the film clamped in the bottom roller before I thread up, down, or otherwise around. lol. At that point, I start at the 9 and manually roll to the 8 except in the smaller 3 houses that are seemingly set at about 6 and a half seconds instead of 8. The less you have to crank the rack when you start up, the better the loops will stay thier propper size.

The biggest problem at our booth is the carpet. Even clean carpet is filthy in terms of particle on the film.

When you get used to at least latching that bottom sprocket Frisbie, you'll notice that the film cleaner will last longer, as will the media pads because they are not having to clean the leader dirt off every time they make thier way back to a print.

Wish I could be to see how you like it but alas, I'm victim of the ol cost cutting bug for the first time in my career.

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Charlie Frisby
Film Handler

Posts: 58
From: Guymon, Ok USA, org. from DFW
Registered: Dec 2004

posted 04-21-2005 02:49 PM

It is a pain at times, but after a few runs (with FG) i noticed less dirt on the b/w american express comercial.

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Kevin Orman
Film Handler

Posts: 24
From: Sompting, Lancing, UK
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 04-24-2005 07:54 AM

Ha! Believe it or not I was actually 'taught' to lace up in this way - piles of spacing/leader on the floor. I was also 'taught' that the easiest way of untangling a leader to re-attach it when packing-off was to literally throw the leader across the room so that the leader straightened itself out across the floor and you then wound it onto the MUT dragging all the dust from the floor with it! I really was shown that way!

Okay, relax, I very soon realised through reading film presentation manuals (oh and common sense) that this was a poor idea. This was back in the 80's before FT!

My policy since then has been that nothing touches the floor - intentionally at least.

The procedure I used with a colleague with a Vic 4 and Christie AW3 was the same as described in FT tips. The variation we had though was that we used a large 'Bulldog' clip (one of those large sprung paper clips used on noticeboards etc). This clip was screwed onto the bottom roller bracket on the Vic 4 where the film makes it's return run to the platter.

Lace-up was:

From feed platter to take-up platter first.

A 'loop' of spacing was then taken towards the projector and the bottom run of film was then clipped preventing any slack film from reaching the floor.

Enough film was then pulled from the feed to lace-up the machine.

When lacing was complete the film was 'un-clipped' from the holder and pulled enough to activate the take-up platter until all excess was taken up. Nothing on the floor and no slck film to worry about.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 04-24-2005 06:47 PM

That's a good one on how to prevent film contact on the floor. I remember seeing in those Kodak bulletins of some users having boxes or trash cans lined with new trash can liners and positioned between the platter and projector, especially where the platter was MILES away from the machine (never could figure out why some booths have the platter this far apart from the machine even when the platter can be much closer...go figure...).

Yet, I still know of some operations that still pile the leads on the floor, then take the lead to the platter after lacing up the machine.

I agree: back in the early 80's, I've seen this practice done as a common practice-piling up the leads on the floor, lace the machine then finishing up to the platter (and another common practice then was using white opaque tape and "baby powdering" these splices to get rid of the stickiness..who ever heard of using clear to join reels..????..another "go figure" thing).

-Monte

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-24-2005 10:49 PM

We do the wastebasket-with-clean-liner thing. Although I am also capable of holding all the leader in one hand while I'm threading and keeping it all off the floor. I've tried the threading "up" routine a few times and can't get the hang of it. I guess I've been doing it the other way too long to change. As far as I'm concerned, keeping the film off the floor (and in frame) is the prime important thing no matter how you thread.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 04-25-2005 04:06 AM

quote: Mike Blakesley
I've tried the threading "up" routine a few times and can't get the hang of it....

Hey Mike, you've got the same machinery that I have, except I have the 1050's were you have the 1014("XL" head) with the 5 star below.

..and these are the same machines that I "reverse" thread with. Trick is to lock the film over the sprocket in the soundhead, then think backwards...not that all hard.

-thx Monte

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Kevin Orman
Film Handler

Posts: 24
From: Sompting, Lancing, UK
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 04-26-2005 09:30 AM

Over this last weekend I had to show an occasional projectionist (for the film club that uses our equipment) how to thread-up the recently installed Vic 5. He was about to do the pile-of-film-on-the-floor method when I (as politely as I could!) stopped him and said "I always go from spool to spool first to avoid film touching the floor" (this is with a long-play tower with 12,000ft spools). He was thought that was a great idea and it had never occurred to him before!

It just shows really the importance of sites like Film-Tech in helping people to find better ways of doing things by sharing knowledge.

By the way he is a terrible projectionist and should never be let near film in my opinion but that's another story! Actually, maybe he is only a terrible projectionist because nobody has ever shown him the 'correct' way of doing things.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-26-2005 01:15 PM

quote: Kevin Orman

Over this last weekend I had to show an occasional projectionist (for the film club that uses our equipment) how to thread-up the recently installed Vic 5.

You let OTHER PEOPLE use your equipment?! [Eek!]

Our policy is that the ONLY people to operate our equipment are me and my designates. My work studies are perfectly capable of operating the projector without damaging film. If they have questions, troubles or find them in a situation where they are not 100% sure of what to do they call me on my cellular.

If somebody has a question about security or how film gets handled they are welcome to send a representative to the booth. That person will take up a position on a stool in the corner of the booth, somewhere and KEEP HIS HANDS IN HIS POCKETS!

If that person wants the film handled (or not handled) in a certain way I will listen to them insomuch as their directions don't cause damage to the equipment.

When it comes right down to it, if somebody wants access to the projector/booth they have to go through ME. If they don't like that they can go pound salt!

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Brent Burkett
Film Handler

Posts: 3
From: Seneca, SC, USA
Registered: Apr 2005

posted 04-26-2005 02:44 PM

quote: Monte L Fullmer
That's a good one on how to prevent film contact on the floor. I remember seeing in those Kodak bulletins of some users having boxes or trash cans lined with new trash can liners and positioned between the platter and projector, especially where the platter was MILES away from the machine (never could figure out why some booths have the platter this far apart from the machine even when the platter can be much closer...go figure...).

Yet, I still know of some operations that still pile the leads on the floor, then take the lead to the platter after lacing up the machine.

I agree: back in the early 80's, I've seen this practice done as a common practice-piling up the leads on the floor, lace the machine then finishing up to the platter (and another common practice then was using white opaque tape and "baby powdering" these splices to get rid of the stickiness..who ever heard of using clear to join reels..????..another "go figure" thing).

-Monte

I started working for a theatre here in SC in 1998. When I was trained in Proj later that year, the only method they taught was to thread to proj, pile into floor, then to rewind/take up.
I always wondered how much crap go onto the film, but some of our projectors have the platters on the wrong side to just be able to bring the loop around to the proj after threading platter to platter. Those proj's have flex conduit running to the wall that prevent you from threading that way unless the platter is on the right side of the proj.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 04-26-2005 03:05 PM

Here's one thing to think about of operators who pile leads on the floor then to the platter: If one knows a bit of physical science, especially the science of capillary action. It's like putting a drop of water on a flat surface and laying a piece of tissue paper on that drop of water. We notice how the water spreads across and through that tissue-to be almost ten times the size, in diameter, of that drop of water.

Now, we take that leader that has been laying on the floor, which is dusty and maybe oily from being soaked to death from Simplex machinery (why I like Christies....) and operators who doesn't "clean up after their messes", take that leader, lace it through the machinery and then around the ring to the takeup deck. That oil/dust that is covering the leader, being wound tight around that ring, will actually SPREAD into the film due to the same capillary action mentioned above.

You do this practice for a few weeks on the same movie, and I'll almost guarantee that the first part of that print will be oily, machinery will be slightly worn down due to the extra contaminants on that leader acting as 35mm 200 grit sandpaper...and your floors will be much cleaner up by "mopping" the floor with that leader.

...something to think about. - Monte

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Brent Burkett
Film Handler

Posts: 3
From: Seneca, SC, USA
Registered: Apr 2005

posted 04-27-2005 12:45 PM

Oh, I completely agree. But as I forementioned, some of the projectors at our theatres where installed with the platters on the left of the projector (century projectors) And there are flex conduits or dts/EX readers on top with cables going straight forward to the wall, making it IMPOSSIBLE to just move the loop from platter to platter to the other side of the projector. I guess you could thread the head of the leader to the top of the projector, move to the other side, thread straight down to the bottom projector roller, then move back to the rear and finish threading to the platter. Then you could thread the projector. These machines where just installed with poor planning when you get right down to it. Five of our eight projectors have the platters on the back/left side/gear side of them. Is this really uncommon? Or was the poor design of the cables/conduit the downfall? Two of the five share a Five tier potts platter system with another projector, though, so moving those to the other side of the projector isn't an option.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 04-28-2005 02:43 AM

Instead of hauling wads of leader back-n-forth, I simply pull the leader through the payout head carry it over to the projector, back to the platter.

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