Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: New security featrue on Madagascar 2

my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Operations » Film Handlers' Forum » New security featrue on Madagascar 2 (Page 2)

This topic comprises 9 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Author

Topic: New security featrue on Madagascar 2

Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 11-07-2008 01:30 PM

quote: Edward Jurich
Is the security feature intended to discourage pirates from taping off a theater screen because of a sound drop-out, like these guys taping are concerned about quality

Even though it's a stupid measure, it's obviously not to DISCOURAGE pirates but to CATCH them. If they find a DVD with the sound drop-out, they know it was from a theater and not from some other source.

| IP: Logged

Blaine Young
Master Film Handler

Posts: 477
From: Kirkland, WA, USA
Registered: Sep 2006

posted 11-07-2008 01:31 PM

I'm no expert on the mechanics of how they do this - except I suspect they run the reels through the printer for a second pass to lay on the orange dots and then simply paint over the SDDS and SRD tracks to destroy them. This would be the easiest way to change the pattern from print to print.

Great thing about DTS is they would have to completely obsure the DTS timecode for nearly 10 feet before the system would revert to <whatever>. I've got all of my DTS systems configured to revert to SRD, so if they actually did cause the DTS to drop out, it wouldn't be as jarring as cutting back to SR.

| IP: Logged

Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-07-2008 01:53 PM

Ah, so when all theatres are finally digital with no way to copy off the screen without getting hauled off to FBI bootleggers jail, then that means we will see the end of piracy! Then the studios can give back some of that 6 BILLION they claim they loose every year by, let's see....HALVING the rental terms to the theaters? Maybe charging $3 a ticket again like before there was video and piracy? Oh, wait -- there are the copies that come from the AMPAS screener DVDs, and the hotels.

I didn't realize that a lot of titles are recorded directly off the PPV systems in hotel rooms. I discovered this when I was doing jury duty two weeks ago and at a lunch break while I was sitting in Quiznos, directly across from the Supreme Court building, an area crawling with police, a guy came with a suitcase filled with a slew of DVD titles. I spotted W and RELIGULOUS and out of curiosity I asked if they were made with a camcorder in a movie theatre. The guy was very knowledgeable of his wares and assured me they weren't -- he said they were made from hotel Pay Per View. I asked him if he knew what he was doing was illegal and he sort of laughed and said he "had a 'deal' with the movie companies." Yeah, right. The deal being, they won't prosecute him if he makes sure he doesn't get caught.

The thing is, the minute they start offering stuff on PPV, it's over; perfect copies ripped faster than you can say RELIGULOUS. They can stop wasting their time ruining the film experience for honest people who pay $10 a ticket and start patroling hotels with their infrared cameras. [Big Grin]

| IP: Logged

John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-07-2008 05:09 PM

quote: Chris Slycord
If they find a DVD with the sound drop-out, they know it was from a theater and not from some other source.

Well, that should narrow it down to a few million venues.

| IP: Logged

Fred Tucker
Film Handler

Posts: 90
From: Sugar Land, TX
Registered: Sep 2007

posted 11-07-2008 07:19 PM

To me, all of these crap codes and audio drop outs are a push for digital cinema! I wonder what the SMPTE has to say about studios intentionally causing audio problems? There has got to be a better way that doesnt cause so much headache for us underpaid projecionists.

| IP: Logged

Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 11-07-2008 08:52 PM

quote: John Wilson
Well, that should narrow it down to a few million venues.

And at that point they'd look more closely for the CRAP code to narrow it further.

All it does is tell them where they need to look. If there's a sound drop: look at theaters as the probable vector. If there's none: look at screeners and the like.

| IP: Logged

Fred Tucker
Film Handler

Posts: 90
From: Sugar Land, TX
Registered: Sep 2007

posted 11-07-2008 09:08 PM

THe problem I see is that while the crap codes may identify the theatre it doesnt identify the perpetraitor. I think the odds are small that in a market with over 200 screens like mine that you could narrow things down enough to catch somebody, I realize that it has been done but at what cost? Granted, my GM came from a theatre in CHicago, the MPAA came in one night and said that they had identified his theatre as being a source of pirating, sure enough they did catch the guy. I have to wonder though, since this wa long before cap codes came out, how did they identify the theatre?

Another thought, if the sound is balanced between digital and analog how can the pirate police tell the digital is dropping out?

| IP: Logged

Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 11-07-2008 09:19 PM

quote: Fred Tucker
THe problem I see is that while the crap codes may identify the theatre it doesnt identify the perpetraitor.

Of course it doesn't identify the perpetrator: IT ISN'T MEANT TO.

If 5 different movies were found that all were captured at your theater, I'd be suspicious and think that either your staff are very lax in terms of watching out for stuff or are "in on it." Either way, your theater gets talked to about how to change things to prevent it from happening.

edit: And the guy caught before the code was probably like this:
1) Since it was quite a while ago (before internet was big I assume) people were selling stuff just locally to where they lived and/or screened
2) So they watch the people selling then figure out who their regular associates are
3) Once they know the regular associates then they follow those guys to see which one is a pirate
4) And by doing so they find out which theaters are getting hit

That kind of method doesn't work so well now since I can sell something someone else screened thousands of miles away

| IP: Logged

Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 11-07-2008 09:27 PM

I don't know Deluxe one (the one of Indy4) but Technicolor was able to have DTS players to insert the code without dropping.
Don't ask me why, but if you check when the SRD faults, DTS will beep without dropping.
Never checked Deluxe one.

Marco

| IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 11-07-2008 09:42 PM

quote: Fred Tucker
if the sound is balanced between digital and analog how can the pirate police tell the digital is dropping out?

They don't need to know if it they are listening to a copy of the digital or analog soundtrack. What they are listening for are the identifying gaps of silence that can be viewed on a waveform monitor. Each print will have the analog track messed up so that it can be identified, just like visual CRAP code. When the digital cuts out, the gaps o' silence are recorded by the camcorder (which supposedly cannot be distinguished by the human ear). That's why there are always loud sounds during the reversions, so they can see it more easily on the waveform. They piece these together to get a print number or whatnot. Then they come in and shoot the theater manager in the face and rape his/her children.

| IP: Logged

Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-08-2008 12:02 AM

quote:
If 5 different movies were found that all were captured at your theater, Of course it doesn't identify the perpetrator: IT ISN'T MEANT TO.

Wait a minute, unless the dropout in each print is unique in some way with some sort of identifying code or specific placement of the dropout, how can it be determined what theatre it comes from?

Unless the dropouts are able to carry some specific marker -- and we don't know that this is not embedded somehow that they are not revealing, which certainly could be, just as John said there was more to the CAP code than was made public -- which can identify the theatre where the bootleg was made, what good is it? And why is a sound dropout any better than the CAP codes? In terms of distracting artifax, I think the level of intrusion that a sound anomoly causes is much more overtly distracting than the visiual codes ever were, which, as far as we know, weren't specific to a particular theatre either.

And I still contend that lab copies are much more an economic threat than painfully poor off-screeners. What's more of an economic treat to Rolex, a watch that looks like it's made out of tin or one that can only be identified as a counterfet by an expert with a microscope?

| IP: Logged

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 11-08-2008 12:47 AM

Yea, the code was inserted about 5minutes into the 3rd reel and about two feet long...around in the scene of lion battle in the arena.

True, it's interesting that the DTS track was untouched during this dropout.

Our Dolby CP500 unit did drop out of digital for a short time and luckilly, no change in sound output.

This info was printed on the back of the attached/loose trailer list that was in the two 'foxboxes' that we received due to us screening of two prints.

-Monte

| IP: Logged

Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 11-08-2008 01:26 AM

Wow, let's give people even MORE reasons not to go to the movies- if the theater doesn't mess up the presentation enough, we'll do it for them! Screw the people who actually paid to see the movie, we've got to stop the pirates!!

I think I'll go scratch some distinctive markings into all my DVDs in case someone steals them, then if they try to sell them I'll be able to prove they were mine. If they try to make copies of them they'll have to cut out the parts that are damaged, so I can identify that if I see their copies.

| IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-08-2008 08:12 AM

I did a screening of this film and yes the sound drop was right after the "West Side Story" sequence and there was virtually NO audio playing so the drop was rather transparent.

There were two sets of cyan blooping dots (two per set) that obstructed one track...I want to say it was the Right track.

As for DTS...I'm curious...does CDs have the blips on them or perhaps have no audio for that portion to essentially force a drop to analog (even with good time-code)?

Steve

| IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 11-08-2008 11:19 AM

Are my posts invisible? I just explained how each print is unique. Each print has the analog sound track with gaps o' silence in their own unique pattern.

Are Brad's posts invisible? He explained that he did a test with DTS and it did not drop out.

| IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 9 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.