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Author Topic: New security featrue on Madagascar 2 Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 11-16-2008 05:37 AM                     Chris No, it's not a rumor. I was in touch with them some time ago when I contacted them about the SRD sountrack issue we had here on almost all prints. Max Perhaps not all prints are the same in the world, but I have no drops from DTS during this CAP, Deluxe or Technicolor is the same.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-16-2008 12:10 PM                     Hey Max, I think things are definitely different where you are. Your markings are also a little bit different than ours. Last spring I ran an Indiana Jones print in dts with no other sound format for backup (no SRD, analog, etc). I quite literally powered them off so if there was a drop in dts, it would've been obvious. I sat there and watched the entire thing. There was no drop.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-16-2008 01:47 PM                        I thought if a feature had DTS timecode, then all prints had timecode. Are there really timecode-free prints made?  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 11-16-2008 07:37 PM                        quote: Brad Miller Last spring I ran an Indiana Jones print in dts with no other sound format for backup (no SRD, analog, etc). I quite literally powered them off so if there was a drop in dts, it would've been obvious. I sat there and watched the entire thing. There was no drop. You just did that so you'd have an excuse to watch Indy 4 again without people thinking you were weird.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-16-2008 08:53 PM                        I watched the movie again today with my wife and some friends and tried really hard to hear the dropout....did not hear it. So I think either there are some dropout-free prints out there and we got one, or Mark G. did a great job of tuning up our sound system the last time.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 11-16-2008 11:31 PM                        You let Mark G touch your sound system? How much disinfectant have you gone through? Have you gotten rid of the smell yet?  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-17-2008 02:47 AM                     I did the same with an SRD house: got their system tuned to where that section of film, and it drop out for a few to optical, was not noticable to the manager on playback of that house when it did switch to optical then back to SRD. And that manager is a stickler for audio quality. And if Mike and this manager didn't hear any different during the optical moment, this is how sound is supposed to be tuned - no difference between optical and digital.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 11-17-2008 04:36 AM                        Then what is the point of digital?  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 11-17-2008 06:46 AM                     I watched the beginning of reel 4 of 007 yesterday, that has the same anti-piracy from deluxe. Actually, I must admit that - despite I knew of the drops - I was not able to hear almost anything. The only one of the three I noted was the one that has been put when an airplane blow up: you expect for some dynamic and loud explosion and you hear something that lacks of them, but that was just was I was able to hear. I have CP650 and dolby level is correct: drops are unaudible on that software version of 650. With older processors the drops will become more clear for sure. I don't mean to giustify the AP system of course.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-17-2008 08:25 AM                        So where is the security information? WHAT is the security information? Is there some sort of audio code imbedded in the analog track that can be later identified when analizing the bootleg audio? If so, then why can't that be embedded in the digital track? Could the actual placement of the dropout be unique? Some sort of way they have of shutting off the printing light at a specific set of frames to correspond to the print number? Or does the dropout happen at the exact same place in every print? If a theatre just played SR for the whole film, would that thwart the security system? It certainly would thwart the droppout distraction. How bout NATO telling THAT to the MPAA -- any print that we find which has digital dropouts, for whatever reason, we will play the entire film in analog only. Then send out a press release saying "Paramount sending out prints of MADAQASCAR 2 with defective digital soundtracks -- theatres have no choice but to play the film in analog sound." See how that PR debacal sits with them.  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 11-17-2008 08:58 AM                     Frank, I believe earlier someone had said they were told that the "code" was that there were inaudible changes in the sound wave that included a security bit that would be noticeable on a scope when played back. Might be similar to how you can take a jpg image and hide another image/file inside it and only a computer forensics person would know the difference.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-17-2008 09:17 AM                     There are pictures in the thread titled "Audio CAP on Indy", but I don't have the time to link to it right now. YES each analog track has a morse code-sort-of-thing to it depending on where they burn in the blips. I still don't see how it will work on a camcorder rig in a theater due to acoustics.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-17-2008 09:30 AM                        quote: Joe Redifer Then what is the point of digital? The only thing I can figure is, if the drop occurs on our print, it's during a dialog scene. It's really hard to tell the difference there...but if there had been a lot of music/explosions/surround effects going on I would have heard it fer sure.  |  IP: Logged Lyle Romer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1400 From: Davie, FL, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 11-17-2008 12:17 PM                     quote: Frank Angel If so, then why can't that be embedded in the digital track? It can't be embedded in the digital track because then the digital track would have to be individually encoded for each print. It doesn't take much to black out some of the SRD and SDDS track and then make lines over the analog track. In digital cinema, security info can be (and probably is) embedded into the audio track and the picture but it is done individually at the playback server level. They call it forensic watermarking in the DCI spec.  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 11-17-2008 12:30 PM                    Which, amusingly, is something that the DTS and the Dolby Digital processors could both very easily do (if they were programmed to do so) without dropping to analog. Again, you don't need the print number, you only need the serial number of the unit. It wouldn't take long to track the unit down. You would still need to do the print number on the analog track though. No other way to track that.  |  IP: Logged

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