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Topic: New security featrue on Madagascar 2

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 11-17-2008 01:55 PM

quote: Joe Redifer
Then what is the point of digital?

..just another fad that people can go "WOW!" on .... just that we don't need to wear any add-ons to hear this "WOW!" as with 3D.

For if SR is tuned just right, it can also sound pretty wicked. Just that you don't get the 90dB + range spectrum with optical as with digital..and that added headroom is the "WOW!" factor.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-20-2008 09:01 PM

Well I broke down our Madagascar print tonight and thought I would try to find the soundtrack bloops in Reel 3....and there they were, within less than a minute of the head of the reel. The Dolby soundtrack had a cyan-colored line going thru it -- looked like a magic marker line, and the SDDS track had a similar mark. I do think it was during a dialog scene so that must explain why I didn't hear the drop-out. Or else our sound system is crappy, but I don't think that's the case, I hope.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-20-2008 09:48 PM

We have this in one of our prints of 'Quantum Of Solace'. Great position...right in the middle of the plane fight scene. [Roll Eyes]

I watched it go through the projector...looks every bit as nasty as the one in that Magnetic-Headed Aliens film.

I'll have to check our second print to see if it's there too.

If you can't do what they're doing and still keep it in SRD, then what are they doing with digital copies?

Also, I wonder what the Directors think of all this? He makes a good action sequence and goes to a bit of trouble doing so...only to have the sound fucked up on purpose!

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-20-2008 10:09 PM

Do directors even go to movies with a real audience anymore? If so, I'll bet there are special prints made for those venues.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-20-2008 10:34 PM

The 'Quantum' print in question was screened with both Marc Forster and Daniel Craig in attendance for the Australian premiere.

Of course they went in...but whether they stayed or not I have no idea.

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Blaine Young
Master Film Handler

Posts: 477
From: Kirkland, WA, USA
Registered: Sep 2006

posted 11-21-2008 12:21 PM

quote: Max Biela
DTS definitely cuts out at the same time. Maybe the situation is different in Europe? If you complain about sound dropouts on your print you get a replacement reel without the code but DTS will still drop to SR at the same time even if there isn't any code on the SR track and SRD/SDDS play flawlessly. As the Timecode is perfectly fine on both prints the discs must contain the information when to switch to SR, just like they switch to Non-Sync or a certain backup format.

If the whole idea is to be able to track where the illegal recording was made, a security code included on the discs wouldn't make any sense, unless they send a different set of discs to each theater - which they don't do. I'm thinking there is something wrong with your particular set of discs which is causing the DTS player to drop out. I've had instances with discs where part of the reel will drop out because the disc cannot be read.

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Max Biela
Film Handler

Posts: 89
From: Dortmund, Germany
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 11-21-2008 12:29 PM

Blain,

we've got 4 prints and 4 sets of discs playing on 4 or more different screens. Every single one drops out exactly at the same time.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 11-21-2008 03:39 PM

Seems to me that Deluxe fixed its antipiracy system this way... Since they were not able to have DTS to reproduce that crap, they have it to drop to analog.

My main concern is that, at least on 6D, a DTS drop is much more noticeable rather than an SR drop from a 650. Three sequential drops DTS-SR would be terrible.
I'm sure that our 007 prints does not drop during airplane sequence. Let's see what will happen in the future.

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 11-21-2008 06:43 PM

Directors do go to movies. Even in the days of Kodak CAP, there were some directors (one big name individual, in particular) who noticed the CAP codes and were very bothered by them (and those were the CAP codes that almost no one noticed, and whose very existence was disputed and questioned...).

On the other hand, Craig and Forstner have appeared at piles of QoS premieres. Craig appeared (mostly with girlfriend Satsuki Mitchell, though sometimes with co-star Olga Kurlyenko) at these premieres:

Sydney on 11/15
Tribeca (NYC) on 11/11
Rome on 11/5
Berlin on 11/3
Paris on 10/30
London on 10/29
Moscow on 10/13 (a "photo call", perhaps not a premiere?)

I can't believe he watched it all of those times...

John, did your QoS showprint have the visible (picture) CAP on R4?

--jhawk

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-21-2008 06:49 PM

I'll take a look at it over the weekend and let you know.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002

posted 11-21-2008 07:01 PM

quote: Mike Blakesley
Do directors even go to movies with a real audience anymore? If so, I'll bet there are special prints made for those venues.

Terence Davies was at the screening of his new film 'Of Time and the City' that I went to at the Phoenix Cinema in East Finchley a couple of weeks ago. No print involved though, it was shown digitally. He was due to attend screenings at several other cinemas.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-21-2008 07:51 PM

Well with the fairly large membership here, whenever one of us is anywhere near a director at any of these screenings and they have a Q&A session, we should make it a point to ask them how they feel about the distributor putting foreign visible and audible artifax on the screen and on the soundtrack with there film. Ask if they are aware of it and if they approved of it. If enough of them are pressed about it and the level of awareness is raised by the really bigshot directors and they start vigorously objecting, perhaps something might be done.

They may be aware of the CRAP codes, but in truth, compared to sound drop outs and thuds in the track, CAPs are nowhere near as obtrusive or distracting, maybe slightly more than c/o cues are (which I also think would do well to be eliminated, or at most, put only at the end of R3 and R6 if need be).

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 11-21-2008 09:27 PM

Realistically, how many directors out there have the power to decree "Thou shalt not CRAP my movie!"? Presumably that would have to be a contractual thing.

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Craig Dunn
Film Handler

Posts: 14
From: Anderson, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 11-23-2008 10:08 AM

Color me cynical...

It appears that the production companies abhor the exhibitor.

An ages old debate and not to switch the topic.

I am all for the protection of creative licenses, but if a book had intentional typos to off set a xerox machines copying sensitivities, wouldn't that diminish the value of their product?

The studios set their regional ticket price schemes (lowest price acceptable) based on preserving the "value" of their product, and keeping the exhibitor from adjusting a fair price for the over developed P.O.S. print the distributor refuses to replace reels for. Absorbing the cost of placating the customer in the process and protecting the giants from the consequences.

I believe that digital presentation is going to just put the studios in charge of a larger bracket of exhibitor operations, with leveraged price controls, and studio approved show placements and schedules.

With digital presentation how are they going to drop the soundtrack to "SR" when there isn't one? Will the subject change? (Obfuscation is really what is going on here, I believe)

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-23-2008 10:22 AM

quote: Craig Dunn
It appears that the production companies abhor the exhibitor.

No, they just assume that the vast majority of "suits" that control huge chains haven't set foot in one of their own auditoriums for a show with an audience in years. If there are complaints, the managers, not the suits, hear them; and they are trained to respond with the BS "it's a piracy deterrent" or "it's a lab mistake" lines, and the complaint never reaches anyone who might do something about it.

If those suits raised hell about this, it would stop.

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