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Author Topic: Dolby Unveils 7.1 Channel Sound for Cinemas - Premiering with Toy Story 3 Jack Theakston Master Film Handler Posts: 411 From: New York, USA Registered: Sep 2007 posted 06-28-2010 01:47 PM                     quote: Frank Angel Another question; did 4track mag ever have its own logo and/or a trailer to promote it? I have never seen it stated as such either on one sheets and I don't even think they made reference to it in the film credits when it was used. I guess in those days, the huge CinemaScope logo was supposed to be de facto 4trk mag stereo....until it wasn't. I've got a few generic "in stereophonic sound" snipes, as well as some movie-specific ones (HOUSE OF WAX, for example). Aside from the first wave of CinemaScope films, however, stereo sound wasn't mandatory, so the announcement was usually a snipe (or in the ad).  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-28-2010 05:10 PM                     In a properly calibrated theatre, we should not continue to get widespread complaints of (current) trailers seeming "too loud", due to the gradual reduction over the years. As of 1999, all of the major studios have their trailers tested by an independent firm to conform to standards set out by TASA. The test runs the trailers through a Dolby 737 Leq(m) meter from the first modulation till the end of the trailer. The meter uses an algorithm to determine "perceived loudness." The numerical upper limit was lowered by 1dB each year since 1999 (so it's probably stabilized by now). Trailers that exceed the numerical upper limit have to be remixed. I believe when people complain about loudness, they're most likely reacting to distortion, which points to a flaw in the sound system. I doubt that people are routinely complaining about subwoofers being too loud. According to the Fletcher-Munsen curves, we're not terribly sensitive in that region of the spectrum. Indeed, this is why we boost the in-band gain of the digital LFE channel +10dB SPL. ...and is NOBODY going to correct the typo in the subject header?  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 06-28-2010 07:57 PM                        I'm not so confident that the whole "Let's reduce the volume of trailers ever-so-slightly over a period of several decades" program really had much, if any effect. They need to be far lower. The problem with most trailers is that they are severely overmixed. They want to have a ton of explosions and surround effects going on at all times in order to "captivate" the viewing audience. This makes the trailers seem much louder than they are. When you get a bunch of trailers that do this back-to-back, people are gonna bitch. Trailers need to be mixed much lower than the 85dbc norm. Also, I'm not a fan of trailers outshining the feature presentation. When the movie comes on, people should notice an improvement in sound quality. Oh, how I loved the days when trailers were mono.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-28-2010 09:15 PM                        quote: Joe Redifer Oh, how I loved the days when trailers were mono. They still can be. What do you think that the "01" button does? In a modern multiplex, I do something similar to what Brad does. Trailers play without subwoofer in SR (assuming that they are modern trailers mixed for SR) at 4.5, then features play in SRD at 6.5-7.0. In theatres without digital sound (or--gasp!--mono houses), I just play the trailers a few notches lower than the feature. Problem solved.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 06-28-2010 09:42 PM                       Manny, I've been looking at that error for weeks now. Glad someone else said something. Pedantically yours.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 06-29-2010 12:00 AM                     Manny, thanks too. That has been making me nuts since the thread started.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-29-2010 07:49 AM                        One of two things will fix the too damn loud trailers. 1) good automation that you can program to follow Scott and Brad's format down-ticking to SR or even mono for the trailers or, if the automation is really good, let it adjust the level of the trailer pack to a lower volume than the feature (are there automation systems sophisticated enough to be able do that?) and 2) a projectionist who stays with the show until the feature starts and who can make those adjustments, even from trailer to trailer if necessary. And Joe is right -- 1db a year? WTF?! If the effin things are too loud, they are too loud. What's the point of a trailer that is obviously too loud but let's not remix it so it matches standard feature average levels, let's just reduce it, not low enough so that it isn't too loud, but just 1db so we can say we did. And let's wait ten years and then we'll drop it another 1db and it will still too loud. What's the purpose of reducing trailer levels by some ridiculously small increment? How come features don't have levels that vary all over the place? Because they have a reference and they mix to that. The reason trailers are much hotter is because the studios WANT them mixed that way. The studio is trying to SELL its product, and if they think mixing trailers louder than the way features are mixed, they will do it, and on purpose. quote: Manny Knowles Trailers that exceed the numerical upper limit have to be remixed. And a studio or its trailer production company is going to go thru the cost of remixing when they wanted it to sound louder to begin with? It's the fox guarding the hen house. That's like telling your teenager to turn down the hip-hop blaring in his room and so he drops it 1db. What's the incentive to keep them from mixing hot or with heavy compression (easy way to make it sound annoyingly loud without necessarily kicking up the actual level) so that they get what they want -- a mix that gets the attention. You can bet they are not exactly worried about a few auntie Millies or uncle Festers getting annoyed. I don't see any incentive for them to not keep on doing exactly what they are doing, TASA not withstanding. You want it to change? Then the exhibitor has to get some backbone and say, any trailer that sounds louder than the feature won't get on the screen; period. THAT would get them to keep trailer levels normal a lot quicker than the TASA program has or probably ever will. Re: Chanel (Live the Fantasy) -- come on guys, that header typo has been with us now for 13 pages....it's almost like an old friend; why change it now?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-29-2010 09:53 AM                     Regarding automations that can adjust volumes mid show... Pennywise CA21/EMK-1 Panalogic CA2000 Eprad/Strong, eCNA/CNA-200 Other automations could often trick older cinema processors into using an alternate fader (like the remote fader on Dolby processors...USL actually had a terminal for reducing the volume on trailers too). Sony SDDS3000 could "memorize" volume levels based on title so each trailer could have its own volume level and different from the feature. With DCinema...one can often alter the volume as much as they want, depending on your actual SMS and equipment's ability to work with such commands (most can, now). Steve  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-29-2010 11:47 AM                        I have our system set up to start the show at 4.0 (Dolby) and when the feature starts, I change it to 6.0. I would think the same could be done in a multiplex with a little effort -- unless the booth is being run by people who just rush in, push the start button and then head back to the lobby. I don't give a crap about meters, test equipment, TASA or anything else; trailers ARE louder than they should be. The overall volume might have been lowered, but the mixing of them is what makes them sound too loud. I don't mind the trailers having all the surround effects and so on, but if they are kept to a decent (lower) volume, the movie will "outshine" them just by virtue of being nice and loud compared to the trailers. Also to those griping about the two typos in the header: I believe the only one who can change that now is a moderator, due to the inability for us poor members edit a post after 30 minutes or 30 seconds or whatever the time limit is.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-29-2010 12:05 PM                        With respect to automated fader changes, the easiest way is with the CP500. As long as your automation system can pulse it into at least two different formats, just set up one trailer format (I call mine "user 5"--copy of 05, no auto-digital, subwoofer disabled) and assign a fader setting to it. Set up another format for the feature (typically 10), and cue the film to pulse that format at feature start. I don't remember if the CP650 can assign fader settings to formats--I have not used one in an automated house. Steve--does automation come along for the ride with all D-cinema installs, or are some of them manually operated? I still have not operated a modern DCI setup....  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-29-2010 12:21 PM                     Scott...pretty much. They all seem to have a form of "I/O" for low-tech controls as well as RS-232 and varying degrees of Ethernet. As such, one can automate as much as they want. There are various solutions out there that will take the GPIO or RS232 and turn that into relay closures and such to deal with lighting, masking, life-safety stuff...etc. You can spend as much or just about as little as you want with either canned or flexible solutions. When it comes to fader settings...Dolby has definitely put "hooks" in so that if a CP650 or CP750 is connected on the "Auditorium Network" the volume is settable in the DCinema show and is also available for on-the-fly changes right on the front of the control screen. Steve  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 06-29-2010 02:18 PM                        The CP650 can assign independent volume levels to individual buttons. My automation cannot pule into any of the user formats, so I took buttons 01 and 04 and changed them to do what I want. 01 is for trailers and plays at 4.2 (but still assigned to Dolby Digital). Then it pulses into 10 which is usually around 6.6 or 6.7. Never a complaint. Then for some auditoriums I pulse into 04 when the credits start to stay in Dolby Digital lower the volume to about 5.5 or so. That way the credit music doesn't blast into the auditorium directly behind it as people leave. With our CP65 and CP200 houses I manually adjust the volume for the trailers and feature each time. The only time we ever get a complaint is when I am not there and the trailers run at the 6.6 - 7.0 that I had the knob set at for the feature before I left. I know this because when I come back a few days later, the volume knob is cranked down to about 5 and the feature is really quiet.  |  IP: Logged Martin McCaffery Film God Posts: 2481 From: Montgomery, AL Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-29-2010 03:49 PM                        I too run the trailers in the area of 4 and the feature around 7. We run art films, so very few explosions and still the trailers are mixed LOUD. Sometimes the difference between trailers is so great as to be evident even to the indifferent audience. We always check trailer and volume levels and set them to comfortable speech level. That can be a problem when you have muttering British films, but usually works.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-29-2010 08:14 PM                        OR.....I worked in a theatre -- big old single screen in Austin TX -- that had a fader control in the back of the house in an enclosed wall box. Believe it or not, it was selsyn-ed to the booth fader. The manager could easily adjust the level without even calling up the booth. But again, that predicates the presense of an actual, attentive biped which we all know are in rare supply in the plexed multies. I was a green newbee when I first encounterd that particular setup. I would always kick up the opening of the WB cartoon -- to compensate for the curtain being closed and attenuating the audio for part of that opening WB logo. Same with the Fox logo and the Fanfare and CinemaScope extension music; beside curtain or not, that always needs a little kick in the ass....make the audience pay attention. After a few shows, when I did my volume adjust thing on the WB cartoon, I saw the fader back down ON ITS OWN. Then came the Fox Logo and CinemaScope Extension music which again, I kicked up only to see that fader go right back down again. I couldn't believe my eyes -- this time I grabbed the fader and felt it trying to fight me. I was beside myself....perhaps weed does rot your brain, thought I. I think the manager knew the newbee was on and was just playing with me. Someone should have video taped the look on my face as I tried to fight the fader knob with two hands from going back down after I turned it up. The chief projectionist had a good laugh. I think he put the manager up to it too.  |  IP: Logged Jonathan Goeldner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1360 From: Washington, District of Columbia Registered: Jun 2008 posted 07-11-2010 01:36 PM                     so aside from the upcoming Step Up 3D, has there been any new news what other future films will be released in 7.1 discrete sound??  |  IP: Logged

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