my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Dolby Unveils 7.1 Channel Sound for Cinemas - Premiering with Toy Story 3 (Page 2)

This topic comprises 14 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  ...  12  13  14

Author Topic: Dolby Unveils 7.1 Channel Sound for Cinemas - Premiering with Toy Story 3 Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-22-2010 08:49 AM                     Please stop and read. This will NOT cost any great amount or anything at all to implement since many/most theatres already have the speakers and possibly the amplifier channels...so the biggest expense, for some, is another amplifier. The digital players already support 16-channels (it is in the DCI spec). The channels are already defined in the DCI spec as channels 11 and 12 so they too are uncompressed discrete channels. Most DCinema processors are 8-channel output by nature and thus no cost there. This one is brain dead easy to implement with just a little bit of wiring to pick up channels 11/12 instead of 7/8 (apparently reserved for ADA tracks). Steve  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-22-2010 09:16 AM                     Sorry steve... To claim this is brain dead easy is without forsight! Some locations will require an entirely new outboard D to A and or new processor to accomplish this. Not all locations wiring is that easy to access. It's just another "Follow the Dolby" idea that no one will follow. I agree with most of your feelings although Disney may shove this down the throats of the exhibitor or dangle the film at the end of a fishing rod if you don't install it. This is a pathetic idea at best. And we could have had left extra and right extra back and put to good use instead. Something that would make sense instead. Mark  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-22-2010 11:49 AM                        I think a center ceiling channel would be better than all these rear surround extras they keep coming up with. It'd be awesome for sci-fi and war movies.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-22-2010 11:56 AM                        Does/will this have a format number?  |  IP: Logged Daniel Schulz Master Film Handler Posts: 387 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 03-22-2010 12:28 PM                        On the Dolby processors it will be Format 91. There will *not* be any codec or Dolby compression scheme - the 7.1 format is just a formal channel assignment to the LPCM soundtrack on the server. Other non-Dolby cinema processors will play back the format just fine, it's just a matter of making sure all the inputs and outputs are properly assigned. The Left Back will be Channel 11 on the DCP and the Right Back Channel 12.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-22-2010 01:23 PM                     Again...reading...most, if not all DCinema processors will require little to no modifications to play this and virtually little to no extra expense. If you have a CP650 with the Cat 790, 791 board...it is a zero cost. CP750, zero cost, JSD-80D, zero cost...that covers the bulk of the DCinema processors out there. If you have an older processor with an A/D converter and only a 6-channel input...then yes, no 7.1 but they are going to make an EX version also available. I would not spend any great amount on upgrading from 5.1 to 7.1 but in MANY installations, the cost is practically nill and that is the direction that sound should go (discrete). I agree about having LC/RC and that would be my preference. However, LC/RC is not eliminated for BSl and BSr. I know that on a DCinema upgrade we are doing in May (decided long before 7.1 was announced) that it will be getting 7.1 simply because it won't cost any more...the processor and theatre will already be equipped for it so why not? Personally, I don't know or care if surround-7.1 catches on...I would prefer it to EX if one needs more than 2 surround channels since the sound may be moved around better...however, we've been wiring in this format for 10-years now already just due to EX and also to avoid series wiring on surrounds. Steve  |  IP: Logged Scott Jentsch Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1061 From: New Berlin, WI, USA Registered: Apr 2003 posted 03-22-2010 01:26 PM                        Is this new extended format for digital cinema only? I get the impression that it's an extension to Dolby Digital on film; basically a discrete 7-channel version of EX. Since digital cinema is already discrete, sound-wise, I'm not sure how this would be anything new for digital cinema, but I'm probably misunderstanding it. Aside from that, I don't understand why this is a bad development. To me, it seems like more channels that theaters with the right equipment can take advantage of. Those that don't aren't negatively impacted in any way. How is that a bad thing? Any issues of theaters being poorly equalized is a problem with the theater, not Dolby, Disney, or the new format.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 03-22-2010 01:42 PM                     Steve, I have to agree with Mark..way too many theatres are NOT wired for EX or have had the foresight to make the surround array wiring accessable to facilitate the changes to go to 7.1 sound. Many also don't have the rack space to spare to add any additional amplifiers. And consider that the vast majority of theatres won't cough up $200 - 300 for a preventative maintainance call..how much would you charge to do this upgrade IF the processor is properly equipped, IF they have the surround array wired for easy access, and IF they have the extra amplifier on hand? It better be more than $300 or you are seriously underpricing yourself. I'd say that unless you sold them an original install with all that criteria met, you're looking at a MINIMUM of $1,200 to $1,500 to do an upgrade to 7.1 since you have to provide the amplifier, wire and labor to split the surrounds. In real-wold business economics I DO agree that that is a nominal cost, but we're talking about exhibitors. And I still maintain that in most smaller houses that are too narrow or have poor acoustics, it is a waste of effort anyways.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-22-2010 01:56 PM                        Somewhat amusingly, the first theatre where I worked actually had a separate wire run from the rear surround speakers to the booth. This was a 70v system that was installed in about 1955 for 4-track magnetic stereo, "upgraded" to Dolby Stereo in 1981, and poorly maintained through most of the late 1980s and 1990s. Still, it's funny that someone actually thought of the possibility of EX in the mid-1950s. About a year after I left there, the entire building was renovated and substantially upgraded (Steve's company did the motion-picture re-installation); I have no idea how it is wired now.  |  IP: Logged Gerard S. Cohen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 975 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 03-22-2010 02:00 PM                     Frank wrote [/QUOTE] The number of channels keeps growing and growing, yet the poor patrons still only have two ears. [/QUOTE] This new audio format won't do much for me, as I have only ONE working ear. Think of the added audio noise suffered by those using hearing aids or the hard-of-hearing systems provided by some theatres. For those with sub-normal but amplified hearing, trailers blasting explosive sounds and overly loud pre-show adverts already provide audio torture; won't this be worsened by additional soundlines?  |  IP: Logged Daniel Schulz Master Film Handler Posts: 387 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 03-22-2010 02:09 PM                        Scott - it's for Digital Cinema only. There isn't enough space in the Dolby Digital track for 35mm to accomodate extra discrete channels. We could theoretically provide 7.1 DDE soundtrack discs, but Disney has declined to provide 7.1 for the 35mm release. You're spot on that D-Cinema already provides for discrete soundtracks. The 7.1 announcement is more a formal description of the channel layout that will be used for Toy Story 3 than an announcement of a new Dolby format.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-22-2010 04:23 PM                     I have been dissatisfied with the directionality of 5.1 surround in many commercial movie theaters for a long time. The only way 5.1 delivers a proper balance of surround directionality is if the viewer is sitting in the auditorium's central sweet spot and the sound system is properly equalized. When EQ and seating choice are proper, it's all good. If either is off just a bit you won't hear real surround with 5.1. A big stereo left-right effect is all that is heard with nothing panning behind the viewer. Any front-to-back or back-to-front surround "fly-by" pans start and stop in the center of the room instead completing the pan. It freaking sucks. It's just as disappointing as a 5.1 track playing back with little to no sub bass (also a common problem). The addition of two more surround channels for the back wall could help. I agree the effect will be worthless if the theater's audio system isn't properly adjusted, but then the 7.1 thing might draw more attention to the maintenance issue. quote: Tony Bandiera Jr I have to agree with Mark..way too many theatres are NOT wired for EX or have had the foresight to make the surround array wiring accessable to facilitate the changes to go to 7.1 sound. The outmoded and poorly maintained theaters deserve to fall behind. A theater that can deliver 7.1 surround and do it well will have another bullet point on why it is better than its competitors. If we had to wait until every movie theater in the country was ready to install some new technological development we wouldn't see any progress on anything at all. When formats like 70mm, Dolby Stereo and 5.1 digital sound were introduced they were offered by only a few theaters located in the biggest cities. Dolby Digital didn't have anymore than a couple hundred installations for its first couple of years.  |  IP: Logged Peter Castle Expert Film Handler Posts: 220 From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia Registered: Oct 2003 posted 03-22-2010 04:49 PM                     We have EX for 35mm. But we have a CP500. Quite happily receiving 5.1 digital. How can we reconfigure for 7.1 digital and not lose EX for 35mm? There's no inputs that I know of into the CP500 for discrete back surrounds, nor any output for it.  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-22-2010 05:21 PM                     @ James Robertson, where are you in Sydney? If you're anywhere near Randwick then dump Hoyts and come see us here. I guarantee your ears will thank you for it.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 03-22-2010 05:58 PM                        If this is just a simple channel assignment, what does this have to do with Dolby™®©? They didn't do a damn thing, here. Also, why isn't this called Disney Surround? There are Disney DVDs (which are better than normal, run-of-the-mill DVDs), Disney Blu-ray (same story) as well as Disney 3D (which beats the snot out of Real D and Dolby 3D). Oh well, at least movie theater sound is finally catching up to home sound.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 14 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  ...  12  13  14

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.