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Topic: Is THX still relevant?
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 11-19-2010 04:25 PM
quote: Edward Havens
Let's remember the #1 thing about THX: it was, and will always be, a for-profit company
You say that like it's a bad thing. You expect all their costs for talent, research, et al. to be absorbed by magic?
quote: Edward Havens
that carved out a niche in developing high-quality standards for operating procedures and practices concerning audio production, and for the equipment to play back that audio in a movie theatre. You had to pay for specific THX-certified equipment (from sound baffle and speaker wire to processor) to be installed in your theatre. You had to pay to have someone make sure your theatre was compliant. And then you had to pay for the right to have that screen THX-logo'd
Wasn't this the whole point of the certification process? If you could buy any odd speakers out of the J.C. Whitney catalog, how would that set a standard for performance?
Certifications have never been free. Take a look at the back of any electrical/electronics product, and you'll see the UL logo. The manufacturers don't get to use that logo for free. They have to pay Underwriters Laboratories to burn up their equipment (that they have to send at no charge) and submit to a process in order to just see if their product passes. It's only when they pass that they get to display the logo on their product.
I can't speak for the mis-steps that THX has taken in the past, but I fail to see the logic in bitching about the costs involved in gaining a certification that proved to the public that you've done something that is probably above and beyond what other theaters have done, and that a third party says so, and comes back on a yearly basis to tweak things and make sure that everything is performing up to the standard.
In return, theaters get to display the THX logo and other marketing materials, and take advantage of the reputation and the marketing efforts that the THX brand represents/represented.
Say the cost is $1,000 per screen per year. How many bodies in the door does it take to recoup that cost?
Does the cost of using THX-certified equipment and adhering to certain design principles during construction add that much to the total cost of construction?
By the way, that means the cost of the THX certified equipment and design requirements that would be over and above what would generally be considered high performance theater design and equipment (which many who pick on THX certification say they're doing already anyway and don't need any stinkin' logo to make them feel good about themselves).
Even though the THX brand isn't as powerful as it once was, it is still a differentiating factor that could be used to a competitive advantage. One would hope that the design principles and the specified equipment list still represents at least a minimum level of quality and performance, so following those requirements should result in a very good theater.
At a time when there are literally dozens of movie theaters with dozens of screens within 10-15 minutes of just about any densely populated area in the country, anything that can be done to differentiate your theater from the dozens of competitors gives a theater a leg up against the competition.
I'd be very interested to hear what other investment can do the same that makes THX certification unreasonably expensive in comparison.
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 11-24-2010 10:44 AM
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
When I was doing THX the certification and recertification rate WAS 10K for the first screen and I believe it was 8K for the second screen. A sliding scale for each consecutive screen in the same complex after that down to something like 4K per screen after 6.
So, using those numbers, to make and keep a 10-screen location all-THX, it would cost around $58,000 - $60,000 per year. As far as initial cost goes, that doesn't seem all that bad when compared to the total construction budget.
I'm surprised that recertification was the same amount, but even at that, the weekly per-screen cost is just $115. If a theater is able to leverage it, that doesn't seem to be a cost that would be difficult to overcome by getting a few extra bodies in the door as a result of the investment.
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
The THX screens were very good to excellent in my installs and they created a problem at the complex's they were installed in. Some customers wouldn't buy a ticket to a given movie UNLESS it was on the THX screen. So we stopped doing them and just built future systems to THX spec.
This was the case at Star Cinema in Johnson Creek, I think. The THX screens were very good, and the other screens were also good, but unremarkable for the most part. While I enjoyed the performance differences, I think many people were swayed by the THX branding alone, and made their decisions based on that. That meant that the THX certification was working, and possibly the only downside of it was that the theater didn't certify every screen instead of just two.
quote: Louis Bornwasser
Scott: You would be right IF thx cert meant anything. Unfortunately in KY and Tennessee, it means BAD. Neither the equipment, the building or the certifying people have any standards. We left them since it was best NOT to be thx. Get it? Louis
That's an unfortunate mistake made by THX, then. Is this an isolated case, or did THX just give up and resort themselves to just cashing checks?
As far as the differentiation between nearby theaters goes, here's an example of what I'm talking about. For the movie Tangled in Disney Digital 3D in the Anaheim area, here is a screenshot of today's showtimes:
View Showtimes full-sized
The AMC Downtown Disney District 12 stands out from the rest due to the THX branding.
Assuming that the THX-branded screen doesn't suck, and at worst, it is of equal performance to all other screens playing that movie, my opinion is that the THX brand brings a value to that theater that attracts people to that theater instead of its nearby competitors. If it only brings in an extra 2 people per day, it's paid for itself.
I don't know if THX can be defended, because I'm not familiar with their current approach to things. I know that they used to give a damn, that they used to specify equipment with high performance characteristics, and that I was impressed when I saw the level of care taken in certifying the Johnson Creek THX screens (my first and only time seeing a baffle wall!).
If not the THX brand, what other brand can convey to the buying public the differentiating factors that make a good theater stand out over and above its competitors? Theaters are doing the upcharge thing with ETX, XD, et al, but are those screens performing any better than the other screens in that same location? Are they any better than other nearby theaters?
I'll bet the marketing efforts behind ETX and the others are paying off, and as a result, the theaters are also getting the upcharged admissions.
Personally, I don't need the screen to be "wall-to-wall" but I do want the picture and sound to be excellent. I'm not sure that ETX is going to guarantee that, but I haven't been to one yet. In contrast, every THX screen I've been to has been impressive (although it's been quite some time).
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 11-24-2010 07:20 PM
quote: Scott Jentsch
Assuming that the THX-branded screen doesn't suck, and at worst, it is of equal performance to all other screens playing that movie, my opinion is that the THX brand brings a value to that theater that attracts people to that theater instead of its nearby competitors. If it only brings in an extra 2 people per day, it's paid for itself.
Problem here is, what "branding" is THX actually doing? I did a quick search on Moviefone and Fandango and as far as I can see, there is no indication at all of any THX theatres. They list all kinds of stuff -- Hearing Assist, Stadium Seating, Enhanced Sound (WeverTF that is) and Handicap Access, but no THX. So they are not spending a lot of money promoting the brand. And the thing about THX, while this may have been different when THX started, it is far from true now that going to a THX theatre (presuming you can find one) assures you of the best presentation. You yourself admit that it is possible to go to a THX theatre that has presentation no better or worse than its competitors. So why would you single out a THX labled theatre as the deciding factor?
In my opinion, the THX brand is pretty meaningless for the majority of the moviegoing public. And those of us who are more particular than the average, we are perfectly capable of determining what theatres we attend that will give us top draw presentation and which ones are the schlock theatres. We don't need to see a logo in order to make that determination just by watching a movie in a given theatre.
And to be quite honest, with today's level of equipment sophistication, how much difference will there be between the few makes of digital projectors out there? I assume THX will give cert to a house using a 2K digital projector just as it will to a 4K projector, yes? So the THX branding is not telling me which image is going to be better. A theatre running 5.1 can be certfied just as easilyl as one running 7.1. So the information that really would help me make a decision isn't forthcoming from the THX brand. Aren't ALL digital projectors THX certified....are any not?
Also a lot goes into what makes me prefer a theatre; all the stuff that has to do with cleanliness, staff attitude, comfortable seating....stuff that only I can quantify myself and which a THX brand can't tell me.
As an exhibitor, I want a program such as this to give me two things: 1) the better presentation than my competitor whose not certified, but equally important, having an ongoing, EFFECTIVE promotional campaign pushing that brand so the public actually see it regularly and recognizes it as a value added product. Without the latter, it's pretty useless to me. I am not saying they need to advertise as much as say McDonnald, but can you imagine how angry a McDonnald franchise owner would be if the McDonnald brand were advertised on TV only as much as THX is? If THX is not hawking its brand to the public, then its worth to me is next to nothing. Without the brand recognition factor is does me little good. And I am convinced there are many installers who could design and set up my equipement and theatre to meet all the THX specs (they are not a secret, are they?).
As for the cost, I don't see how only bringing in 2 extra people a day can pay for the yearly cert costs. And as far as upcharge goes, as far as I know, I have never seen a surcharge at a THX theatre.
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 12-01-2010 01:40 PM
Admittedly, my last experience with the THX screens at Johnson Creek was a long time ago, so I don't recall everything about them. I do recall something about an exit light that was shining on the screen, but I thought that was something they were going to address with a shroud that prevented the light spill.
quote: Frank Angel
You yourself admit that it is possible to go to a THX theatre that has presentation no better or worse than its competitors. So why would you single out a THX labled theatre as the deciding factor?
My comments in that regard were in deference to the people on this board that have stated that, in their experience, THX screens have not been consistently better than non-THX screens.
My personal experience with THX screens has been very positive. I've not been to a bad presentation in a THX-certified auditorium, but since such screens are few and far between in the Milwaukee area, my recent experience is quite limited.
quote: Frank Angel
As for the cost, I don't see how only bringing in 2 extra people a day can pay for the yearly cert costs. And as far as upcharge goes, as far as I know, I have never seen a surcharge at a THX theatre.
I was taking $10,000 per year for certification and dividing by 730 people (2 people * 365 days), which would come to less than $14 per person in needed additional revenue. The numbers get better if you have a 10-screen all-THX location, with an average per-screen cost of $6,000 per year ($8.21 per person).
I've never seen an upcharge on a THX presentation, but upcharges are all around with the new ETX, XD, RPX, and UltraScreens that are popping up with great frequency. Quite a bit of capital investment and marketing is being put into these efforts, and they are charging upwards of 30-40% more per ticket to deliver what one could argue is an experience that should be the norm, not the exception.
Why aren't all auditoriums outfitted with the best screens and best sound systems possible? Why should I have to pay to get it?
People seem to be willing to pay for a better experience. Whether that experience is branded with the THX name, the ETX name, or something else, the marketing efforts put forth are drawing people to that theater over another.
It's that cause and effect that is the second part of my argument about whether the THX brand is relevant. Effective marketing will draw people to the item being marketed. Whether they come back is going to depend on the actual experience once they get there.
quote: Frank Angel
I did a quick search on Moviefone and Fandango and as far as I can see, there is no indication at all of any THX theatres.
I can't speak for the motivations of the companies behind Moviefone and Fandango. As far as The BigScreen Cinema Guide goes, we feel that it adds value to our readers, and that's why we publicize those presentations (as long as the theaters bother to flag the THX shows). That may change in the future as the THX brand is less important than it once was, but for right now, we make a point of flagging those shows for special attention.
quote: Frank Angel
Also a lot goes into what makes me prefer a theatre; all the stuff that has to do with cleanliness, staff attitude, comfortable seating....stuff that only I can quantify myself and which a THX brand can't tell me.
This is one of the biggest reasons why we created the Reader Comments section for movie theaters. So much factors into the moviegoing experience that we thought it was important for our readers to be able to share their experiences.
It's been moderately successful so far, but personally, I'd like to see dozens of comments for every theater on our site. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) Please feel free to add your comments, as I would definitely welcome them!
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 02-14-2011 10:18 AM
Seems you could benefit economically by alternating THX certification -- one year on, two years off. If I were a commercial exhibitor (THX doesn't seem to be courting non-theatrical exhibitors -- museums, performing arts operations, etc.), I would be able to certify for a year and then drop it. For the year I am certified, I would promote to the hilt, the fact that I'm a THX theatre. That would establish my theatre to my patrons as an operation that is more attractive than my non-certified competitors -- at least that's what THX branding is supposed to do. After I establish that, why keep paying for the right to use the logo once I've got association in my patron's minds with the THX brand and my operation? Let it go for a year, maybe two, and then once again pay to reestablish the branding.
This strategy is born, as mentioned already, my belief that I could be able to easily meet THX specs once my facility has been designed that way. From that point on, the THX specs won't all of a sudden evaporate at the end of the year simply because I can't put a THX logo on my advertising. I believe it would be fair to say that the public will remember my quality of presentation during my THX non-certified periods. Again, to an exhibitor the THX brand, once specs are established, is simply a marketing strategy, nothing else.
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