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Author Topic: Is THX still relevant?
Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 02-14-2011 10:33 AM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Nice idea, but they make you send in the crossovers, which belong to them. Louis

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 02-14-2011 12:41 PM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
But didn't THX stop making the crossovers, giving an official list of approved crossovers that you could buy yourself?

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Lionel Fouillen
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Belgium
Registered: Nov 2002


 - posted 02-14-2011 02:58 PM      Profile for Lionel Fouillen   Email Lionel Fouillen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As previously said, THX definitely made a difference in audience consideration many years ago, when THX really meant something superior. From my archives again, this scanned leaflet from Lucasfilm analyzing Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade's box office results in THX theaters (Northern America) -- and also announcing THX coming to some New York City theaters.

"THX Update", Volume 9, Summer 1989.

Funny to see how the megaplex phenomenon already had taken over the movie palaces, as in Los angeles the Cineplex Odeon Universal City outperformed the Chinese and the National on week #1.

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Tom Petrov
Five Guys Lover

Posts: 1121
From: El Paso, TX
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 02-14-2011 03:28 PM      Profile for Tom Petrov     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
THX per screen averages kind of reminds me IMAX Digital today. Those IMAX screens out perform the regular real D ones.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 02-14-2011 03:32 PM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lionel,
You're comparing apples to oranges.

The location is at the Universal Studios lot, so they'd get lots of tourists coming in to there. And working with the studio, they'd get lots of premieres and such as well. Plus, since it was a studio venture where they wanted those premieres, they've also got one huge auditorium with balcony (or at least would've at the time) so people wanting an experience comparable to the big-single-houses could still get it. Plus, 1989 the place would still only be a couple years old which tends to help...

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Lionel Fouillen
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Belgium
Registered: Nov 2002


 - posted 02-14-2011 03:44 PM      Profile for Lionel Fouillen   Email Lionel Fouillen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Chris,
It surprised me because tourists usually visit Universal Studios and the Chinese (see how millions of them spend hours checking out if their hands/feet/ears/nose [Razz] fit their favourite star's prints in the courtyard). I would expect them to prefer a show at the prestigious Chinese rather than at this cold megaplex which indeed had 2 big auditoria but with not-so-big screens...

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 02-14-2011 04:35 PM      Profile for Michael Coate   Email Michael Coate   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe the Universal City 18 had Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade opening on several screens, and so I imagine the #1 gross that was reported was based on a collective figure from all the screens playing it in that complex. Collectively, I bet all the screens at Universal showing Indy III had more seats than did the single-screen National (1,100 seats) and Chinese (1,500 main auditorium seats), so landing in first place shouldn't be a surprise.

Boasting about the THX grosses seems like nothing but marketing. A better comparison, in my opinion, would've been to compare the grosses of Indy III's 70mm presentations (204, of which 50 were in a THX-certified house) to the 35mm presentations (2,123, of which 75 were in a THX house). Paramount did that very comparison five years earlier following Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom's debut, where the studio reported the film's 70mm engagements (13% of the bookings) accounted for 30% of the first-week gross.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 02-14-2011 07:20 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Statistics. . . . damn statistics. Better theatres spent money. It should be no surprise that high grossing cinemas always spent on ANYTHING. THX included.

As I said earlier, we REMOVED thx from National Amusement theatres when they were unable to prove an increase in grosses. Reason? All auditorium were built identically. All equipment was the same, except the crossovers. All could pass thx specs. It was impossible to market thx since films were moved from house to house from hour to hour. Making this even more complicated was the belief that thx was shrill compared to the others houses.

70mm Dark Crystal prints were distorted and played terribly in the (overly bright) thx house. (I set up all houses identically to start, but thx raised the hf in "their" houses.) Louis

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 02-15-2011 04:14 PM      Profile for Michael Coate   Email Michael Coate   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Louis Bornwasser
Statistics. . . . damn statistics. Better theatres spent money. It should be no surprise that high grossing cinemas always spent on ANYTHING. THX included.
As fascinating as statistics, data, figures, etc. may be, and as much as I like to post them to support whatever point I'm making, ultimately, I think stats are deceptive at best and useless at worst. It seems a no-brainer that the highest-grossing/best-performing theaters tend to be the ones in highly-populated areas.

quote: Louis Bornwasser
70mm Dark Crystal prints were distorted and played terribly in the (overly bright) thx house.
The Dark Crystal (1982) was released before the introduction of THX. The Black Cauldron, maybe?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-15-2011 04:57 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, it is true that the highest populated areas are the highest grossing. However, things like 70mm and the BIG SHOW tend to let some cinemas within that population to take more than their fair share. The pie is but so big but how big a slice one gets can be affected by what is put into the theatre and perceived by the patrons.

-Steve

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 02-15-2011 06:08 PM      Profile for Brian Guckian   Email Brian Guckian   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Another aspect to this is that one could argue that the low-margin, expansionist nature of the multiplex business model was not conducive to the recurring annual costs involved in THX Certification.

Scott's sample figures earlier are very interesting - on the face of it, the re-certification costs are / were low in terms of weekly cost per screen. But now consider those figures in terms of low profit margin, and even more so in terms of the 1990s expansion frenzy, where presumably a healthy cash surplus was needed to help leverage funds.

Hence there would probably have been little room to pay say c. $ 60,000 a year per site for re-certifications.

In theory, there could (and should) have been a surcharge for presentations in THX houses, but of course that revenue would probably have found its way into "other areas", unless ring-fenced (in titanium [Smile] ).

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 02-16-2011 01:51 PM      Profile for Scott Jentsch   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Jentsch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The cynical part of me places the responsibility upon the steady erosion of showmanship in the theatrical exhibition industry. Perhaps that erosion was a result of, or a result of the same forces of, the multiplex expansion. Theaters went from showplaces to virtual stockyards, interested primarily in getting as many bodies in and out as quickly and as cheaply as possible.

I do agree with the low-margin argument, though, as most theater managers that I talk to are always telling me that the elements of showmanship that I think are important are never going to happen unless they have a proven return on investment. Problem is, if you never try, you never know if the investment will bear fruit.

I know of one small chain in Michigan that is always trying new things to see what works for them and for their audiences. While some of their ideas are a little odd, I applaud them for always trying something to try to improve their business.

If there's anything that the ETX/RPX/XD/UltraScreen onslaught is showing us, is that people are willing to pay for an enhanced moviegoing experience. Whether it's the better seating, bigger screens, upgraded sound systems, food choices, alcohol choices, 21+ exclusivity, and/or seatside service that drawing them, it's hard to tell.

Mark's comment about theaters that installed only a couple of THX houses and finding that their audiences only wanted to see movies in the THX houses means that they made a mistake in not building every auditorium so that it could be THX-certified.

When you use the bathroom at WalMart, there's a sign that tells you when the last time was that anyone cleaned/inspected it. Too bad there wasn't something similar on the doors at movie theaters. The next time I see a movie, I'll have to ask the manager when the last time was that the screen I'm going into was checked and calibrated. I'll bet I get a blank stare.

If it was done right, THX certification did that. It gave people the confidence that, sometime in the past year, that theater was checked out and given the stamp of approval. I have yet to hear of any effort or program that provides that same assurance to the paying public.

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Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1869
From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 02-16-2011 02:23 PM      Profile for Mitchell Dvoskin   Email Mitchell Dvoskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The splitting of the consumer side of THX from the theater side was the final nail on the THX coffin. On the consumer side, THX is now a virtually meaningless emblem on various types of equipment of varying quality, trashing it's value in the public's eyes (ears).

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 02-17-2011 07:03 AM      Profile for Brian Guckian   Email Brian Guckian   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Scott Jentsch
Even though the THX brand isn't as powerful as it once was, it is still a differentiating factor that could be used to a competitive advantage. One would hope that the design principles and the specified equipment list still represents at least a minimum level of quality and performance, so following those requirements should result in a very good theater.

At a time when there are literally dozens of movie theaters with dozens of screens within 10-15 minutes of just about any densely populated area in the country, anything that can be done to differentiate your theater from the dozens of competitors gives a theater a leg up against the competition.


This is why it is still very relevant. "Market differentiation" has a value that can be quantified in terms of additional box office revenue, and a small ticket surcharge could cover the annual re-certification fee where that is perceived to be a deterrent. Such a charge would more than cover the cost of bringing in an outside, independent engineer / tech, so the integrity of the work isn't compromised.

[dlp] doesn't make THX Certification less relevant, because [dlp] will not improve poor acoustics, background noise levels, bleed-thru, viewing and projection angles, etc. Granted, uncompressed sound gives even a bad theatre an improvement, but think of how much better that would be when the acoustics (and overall theatre design) are optimal too.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 02-18-2011 05:08 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know about y'all but I'm pretty much done with the theoretical, academic, historical and aesthetic part of this discussion.

THX made a difference, it was a great thing to do -- No question there -- but now I want to hear from the folks who make the business decisions nowadays: How relevant is THX today?

And I'm curious if ANY of your customers are begging you to pursue it.

What is the MAIN technological enhancement your customers talk to you about? D-cinema? 3D? THX? Something else..?

And, no -- I don't mean to imply that THX can't improve any of these technologies -- I'm trying to find out if CUSTOMERS still ask for THX. Because I'm SURE that's ultimately what made it "relevant" in the past, and I have a hunch that's what makes it (...umm...) "less relevant" today.

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