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Author
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Topic: An open letter to Tyler Perry
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 07-06-2012 12:02 PM
quote: Manny Knowles
Reference level is just that -- it's for reference -- it's "home" -- start there and make a judgement call.
This is actually a limitation to the notion that we could all post our fader levels in a forum here -- some markets will NEED to have a lower playback level and some will need a louder one. And then the flame wars will begin.
That makes sense, but the poster could take that into account. If they normally play movies at 5, but such-and-such movie required a change from the norm, that would be a variance worth reporting.
In that case, my previous example could be:
quote:
Sound Check - Goldeneye
"Played Goldeneye (DCP) on Screen 3 at AMC Burbank, and found the intro scene so quiet, we had to turn the fader up to 7 to reach listenable levels.
Most movies play at 5 comfortably, so this movie was exceptionally quiet in this room."
I'm curious about the comments about not being able to trust the RTA to get a good result. If a flat response doesn't actually result in a good-sounding theater, how the heck can there be any way to standardize when the measurable results won't get you where you need to go? It would seem that relying on such subjectivity would be a big part of the reason why sound can be such a mess.
Am I naive in thinking that a properly treated room with a flat frequency response should not be able to replicate the soundtrack properly? Is it not just about frequency response, but reflections or other characteristics that create havoc in an auditorium? I can imagine that a room that reverberates too much would create all kinds of problems, but I would also think that there are ways to measure for and eliminate such issues.
While I don't think that sound mixers should change what they do because the real world can't figure out how to present their work, I do think that people in the industry need to be aware that such challenges exist and that awareness should create pressure to fix the problems that exist.
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Marco Giustini
Film God
Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007
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posted 07-08-2012 05:08 AM
Yes, but eventually the bass content was filtered to the subwoofer channel. If memory serves, 6D was better at filtering, leaving less LF content in the surrounds.
Scott,
The reason why the RTA is not 100% accurate is that the shape and slope of the curve you see is affected by acoustic. The 2KHz slope is caused by reflections, the microphone pick them up as in phase/out of phase signals and shows the results accordingly. Our ears (brain) can do a better job and distinguish between direct and reflected sound. For example if you have a nasty reflection in your room, it could heavily affect what the RTA is showing and the subjective listening could end up being awful.
If you read the ISO2969 literature, it says that the point where the RTA graph should start to drop and the slope of the graph depends on the acoustic (size of the room in general). Hence what is called X-500, X-250... On the D2 RTA you can display those curves, there also is a different approach called "sliding knee" which moves the hinge point from 2K to a different level, usually 3Khz-ish.
What is right and what is wrong has to be assessed by the engineer, by careful listening of some well known content.
That said, the standard X-Curve in an average auditorium usually leads to a good result, usually not too far away from the proper one. But it cannot be predicted 100% in advance.
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 07-11-2012 10:54 AM
Marco, thanks for the explanation. It does seem as though the issue is one of room acoustics affecting the measurements, which aren't necessarily detected by the RTA.
In home theater, many receivers have the Audyssey (Denon and others) or YPAO (Yamaha) measurement technologies. I seem to remember that Audyssey was implemented for commercial installations as well...
I would think that in this day and age, equipment would exist that would be able to detect and measure more than just sound levels, but also reverberation and other characteristics. I fully believe that a very experienced technician could do the same, but that's subject to his/her physical/emotional condition. If their hearing is going, or if they just have a headache that day, I can imagine that the results could be very different from the week before.
As a trained engineer, I like scientific measurements. As long as the equipment is calibrated, the results should always be repeatable, trackable, and able to be duplicated if equipment is replaced/repaired. The trick is to have the equipment to measure the right things, so nothing is missed...
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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"
Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 07-13-2012 12:15 PM
Simmer down now -- there's no need to be offended -- i think you misunderstood me -- i'm talking about ALL theaters, in general -- they're not all THX, and most could could probably never be -- the WORLD is more interesting when you take this into account. So, I stand by my comment that moving the mic one seat over will yield a significantly different result. That's gonna be true for most people.
You are blessed and fortunate to have your name attached to some prestige projects. This isn't about challenging credentials or anything like that. I'm much more interested in shining a light on the truth of the overall situation as I happen to see it.
If the cap don't fit, don't wear it.
Now...If we DID compare experiences, mine would still prove my point -- which is that many of the theaters I have set up -- and the rooms I have watched movies in -- have all been compromised by the realities of the existing space, budget restrictions, limited skill, etc
(and that includes some THX sites)
...and you know that this is a reality of the business.
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