|
|
 
|
|
Author
|
Topic: An open letter to Tyler Perry
|
|
|
|
|
Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"
Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
|
posted 06-27-2012 02:06 PM
The only potential criticism of TAP (and Dolby's version) was that the studios had to "opt in" and pay for the service. So only some movies got checked -- maybe only certain markets too.
Another potential issue with TAP was that consumers were invited to "Phone THX" -- and it's hard to believe this didn't cause a few false alarms. Although, I know of one case where TAP was called in to investigate what turned out to be a real problem.
Ideally, there would be a pool of skilled professionals serving a kind-of "jury duty" so that all films, in all places, across a variety of play dates, could be subject to inspection.
(It's tempting to believe that we could do it right here on Film-Tech -- but that's arguably the fox guarding the hen house.
Carrot = I'll "pass" you if you "pass" me.
Stick = I'll "fail" you if you "fail" me.)
I imagine we would need a large, national, volunteer corps of "disinterested" (yet interested/knowledgeable) and anonymous checkers.
Not impossible; but perhaps improbable.
Lastly, I should point out the dilemma of the checker -- there's no risk in finding flaws -- aka "having an eye for detail" -- but declare something "perfect" and that now opens YOU to criticism that your standards are not high enough -- so I would expect scores to be skewed down a bit.
This is a very complex problem. If it weren't for that, it'd be solved by now.
Another option -- a microphone permanently mounted in the auditorium performing a sort-of "transfer function" on the movie -- the processor can "know" what it's sending out and what it ought to get back -- the volume LED turns green when you're playing content at the dub-stage level -- perhaps within a tolerance range of +/- 1.5dB.
If it's too loud (for you) and you want to turn it down, then at least you know with some degree of certainty that you're imposing your taste onto the mix -- it wouldn't stop people from using the volume control, but it would let you know that you're "disagreeing" with the intent.
VPF peeps -- be forewarned -- there will be hell to pay for disagreeing! ![[eyes]](graemlins/eyes.gif)
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"
Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
|
posted 06-27-2012 02:43 PM
quote: Marc D Fishman
while a mic in the auditorium isn't a bad idea, I don't think there is a consistent way to know where things should be as opposed to the setting on the fader.
The processor would have the ability to meter the outgoing sound (digital cinema) or incoming sound (film) and, from there, it would be a simple matter to correlate those readings to an "expected" SPL measurement -- it could work based on peaks, or something like the Leq(m) method used by TASA -- but that's the gist of the idea.
(Edit: The trouble with the Leq(m) approach is that it would require some metadata -- the Leq(m) score from the dub stage -- as well as a full run of the entire movie in the theatre, and the system would need to somehow "know" when the feature starts/ends -- otherwise trailers would be included. The "peak method" would provide instant, ongoing feedback for any moment in the show, including the individual trailers.)
The mic would need to be calibrated as part of the initial install, in much the same way as a Dolby Auditorium Assist mic.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
|
posted 06-27-2012 07:11 PM
quote:
quote: Manny Knowles The people in the world of academia seem to think I know what I'm doing.
So if you were me and the people are screaming bloody murder because a movie is too loud -- or begging me to turn it up louder -- what would you do? Tell them to accept it or get lost?
Manny... I never implied you didn't know what you're doing... I simple stated that based on the tone of your comments back to me you don't seem to be interested in trying to engage me in a helpful manner..
Please don't put words into my mouth.
A question for those following my concerns..
How many times do you find your self playing the films at a level other than 7, and of that percentage, how many times do you feel it's too loud, and how many times do you feel it's too quiet.
quote: Scott Jentsch Aside from the reach for humor, my understanding that THX's involvement in the home theater side of things was to bring standards to the processes. Whether it was a DVD or a videotape, the idea that maintaining a consistent, testable condition is a good one, no?
Especially now that everything is moving toward Digital Cinema, I would think that getting back to that simple idea would be easier than ever. In fact, I would be shocked if this wasn't part of the production process.
Can you shed some light on that, Marc?
If varying sound levels of movies is such a concern, how about we shed some light on it? Perhaps a thread for each release so that people can comment on what they are experiencing in their theaters?
If someone is experiencing an issue, but no one else is, that could be an indicator to that first party that they have a problem that is unique to their situation, and further investigation is warranted. If there are widespread reports of "Witness Protection" (for example) being too soft, then it becomes common knowledge that this is perhaps an issue with the source material and not isolated to one theater.
It might be too much to hope that those in the production side and those in the exhibition side could collaborate and share information freely, but without even that much information, there is no data, just anecdotal evidence that doesn't do any substantial good.
As Manny alluded to, THX media certification wasn't intended to be an arbiter of subjective content.
They were concerned with objective QC... in terms of audio, clipped levels, drop outs, distortion, etc..
I am lucky to attend a lot of screenings outside of public venues, and I can be fairly certain that what I'm hearing at many of those are as intended...
I don't think there is an overall concern from most of my peers that there is a huge issue with varying levels... an awareness, but not so much a concern.
All of the stages in town where films are mixed, and certified by Dolby to print master in, are close enough so that when a film like "Witness Protection" (and for full disclosure it was mixed at the company I work for on a stage I'm fairly familiar with) comes out at whatever overall level it does, it's gone though so many QC stages (from mix to print master to print and DCP check, etc.) it couldn't be a surprise to anyone how loud (or in this case low) it was....
And as the OP said, it's been an issue in many houses, requiring a substantial amount of gain.
Your post got me thinking about the possibility of having the information of the overall loudness content of a film... much like Dialog Normalization values for broadcast and media Dolby Digital..
Since we have a dubbing and exhibition standard, I think most film makers would find that kind of information not needed... we aren't going to get Michael Bay, Chris Nolan or other directors who like there films loud, to change their ways... and as I've made clear, while it's not always my cup of tea (loud films) I have to respect their tastes and desires...
IMO, I would love for audiences to experience it as intended... and I fully understand that's not always going to happen in all instances.
And again, for clarity (and I myself most certainly clouded up my initial point) I'm concerned with the fact that most theaters don't have employees that know what to check for, change it for one film but don't bother changing it back for another, have speakers off or broken, have a policy like Landmark for all films to play at 5, etc....
As much as Manny and I hit it off on the wrong foot, I am wholly apprciative of his efforts to present to his audience a good experience.
Not every film I've mixed has ended up as loud as I've wanted them (and I've only mixed a couple of really loud films...) but its always been a conversation with the directors, film editors and producers.
Many things to think about..
I'm thinking how many people noticed there was not a single paragraph in the above post with 2 or more sentences in it.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif) Sorry, couldn't resist.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Scott Norwood
Film God
Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99
|
posted 06-28-2012 11:59 AM
quote: Manny Knowles
Fortunately, with digital cinema, it is quite easy to place a volume adjustment cue at the start of the feature. That way if the trailers cause the operator to lower the volume, the cue at the start of the feature can restore to the "chosen" level for the main attraction.
This works fine with most film automation systems, too. See here. The problem is that many theatres do not bother and end up just turning down the fader for everything in order to make the complaints stop. For some reason, audiences (especially people over a certain age) tend to complain when a film is being played too loud, but almost never complain when the sound is too quiet.
Question: at what point did playback levels become standardized? Lots of older films have leaders that say things like "play at standard Columbia Pictures fader setting for this theatre." Soundtracks from the 1930s and 1940s seem to be all over the map in terms of playback levels (a problem which tends to be made worse by the fact that we are showing reprints of these now, many of which have re-recorded tracks). Older installations often have a provision for adjusting the fader setting at every reel change, due to slight differences in the recording level of each reel. And, even today, Dolby processors have a "mono trim" adjustment, which leaves some room for a judgment call when playing back a format 01 track.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
|
This topic comprises 12 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
|
Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2
The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion
and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.
|
Home
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic