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This topic comprises 8 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
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Author
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Topic: Interstellar and fader 7
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 11-16-2014 02:08 PM
quote: Brad Miller
I still run my sites at 4 for previews (surrounds and subs off) and approximately 7 for feature. (There is an auto-ramping control that looks at percentages of tickets sold and sets it typically around 6.5-7.5, so for the purpose of this discussion I say feature at 7). On occasion a site will play as high as 4.5 for trailers. The complaints GO AWAY on all accounts and everyone is happy.
Nice. What would be my ideal solution - and I've never seen this actually done, though I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be possible - would be an automatic volume control system based on a microphone hung from the ceiling in the auditorium. This connects to the cinema processor, and you can configure each item in the playlist simply to play at whatever average setting (in decibels) you like. You would need to play the DCP through in its entirety to an empty house first, so that the processor can listen to it and find the peak and average levels (either that or the CP would have to be able to read the DCP itself during ingestion), but after that's done you can simply set the ads and trailers for, say, 70 and the feature for 81-82. During the shows, the CP's software listens along with the audience to what is happening in the auditorium and then adjusts automatically for a full house, a near-empty house, rain-soaked clothing, a DCP mastered abnormally loud, etc. etc., to keep the perceived playback level where you want it.
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David Buckley
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 525
From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 11-16-2014 02:18 PM
As (these days) a humble movie-goer, I got to experience Interstellar over the weekend. At a cinema that I guess got the memo, and, I guess, acted on it.
I have never heard such dynamic range in a movie, neither have I experienced that volume in a cinema. It was, in the very literal sense of the word, awesome, as in, full of awe. The audio went from silent to oppressive.
There is nothing "wrong" with the sound mix. Some may not like (i.e. have an opinion on) the artistic choices made, but that is a question of preferences, not an absolute.
The half hour of trailers and ads (grrr!) were at the normal sort of volume these things are, so someone could clearly be arsed either twiddling the knob, or making the automation do the twiddling on their behalf.
Mrs Buckley, with whom I attended, remarked that this was the nearest thing she'd heard to a real rocket noises, we having seen a couple of launches. Certainly there was bags of LF energy, delivering the feel as well as the hear.
This folks, was a movie experience. Ok, I didn't get the 70mm look, but I got the full effect of the movie. 70mm picture with Something-about-Mary-level-audio would have been a much worse deal.
quote: Leo Enticknap
What would be my ideal solution - and I've never seen this actually done, though I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be possible - would be an automatic volume control system based on a microphone hung from the ceiling in the auditorium.
Not uncommon, particularly in fast food restaurants. Though a bit of of fashion these days. The Symetrix Model 371 was the box of choice, though its long been discontinued, and isn't even in the legacy products section of the Symetrix website. Today you could assemble such processing functions using any configurable audio processor like a Soundweb.
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David Stambaugh
Film God
Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 11-17-2014 12:07 PM
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/20378/20141117/christopher-nolan-addresses-sound-issues-in-interstellar.htm
Christopher Nolan Addresses Sound Issues In 'Interstellar'
It seems that Christopher Nolan's hit film has one major problem: a horrible sound mix. At least that's what film fans are saying as they flock in droves to see the movie.
However, Nolan recently addressed those issues by stating that the sound was exactly the way he intended. Yes, he meant for parts of dialogue to get lost under music and sound effects.
"Many of the filmmakers I've admired over the years have used sound in bold and adventurous ways," says Nolan. "I don't agree with the idea that you can only achieve clarity through dialogue."
Movie goers all over the world, though, disagree and theaters across the world are reporting customers complaining about the sound mix with the film. In particular, IMAX theaters are seeing the most complaints. In Rochester, New York, one theater even put a sign up outside, noting that the sound issues were not the fault of the theater's, but instead, placed blame directly on Nolan.
That theater was correct: Nolan is to blame, and he states his choices in drowning out dialogue in particular scenes was deliberate.
"The theaters I have been at have been doing a terrific job in terms of presenting the film in the way I intended," says Nolan. "Broadly speaking, there is no question when you mix a film in an unconventional way as this, you're bound to catch some people off guard, but hopefully people can appreciate the experience for what it's intended to be."
Unfortunately, what is unconventional to Nolan is mostly annoying to most film fans who struggle making out the dialogue in the film. Maybe we're just not ready for such "creative" choices.
Nolan is no stranger to sound issues in film. When we first heard Tom Hardy's Bane in The Dark Knight Rises, the voice was so muddled that most people could not understand the character's lines. That dialogue was then re-recorded, but even in the final version of the film, many film goers still complained that the character's lines were difficult to hear.
If you're an Interstellar fan, though, there's hope yet. If you need a few visits to the theater to make out the dialogue you missed the first time around, you can now see the movie all you want for anywhere from $15 to $30. Paramount and AMC Theatres are offering an unlimited ticket for Interstellar viewings, the first of its kind. However, you need to act now, because only a limited number of those tickets are available.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-17-2014 05:30 PM
It's one thing for a director to say a certain passage of dialog is meant to be unintelligible out of creative intent. The key is doing it in a manner where the audience will understand why, typically for some kind of dramatic effect. Steven Spielberg loves to have scenes in his movies where 2 or more people are talking over each other. Characters whisper things to each other leaving the audience wondering what was said (hey, it might be important). Sometimes the director will even bleep out something like a character's name and then reveal it later on. Ultimately the audio editing choice needs to make at least some sense by the time the movie is finished and all its plot points have been revealed.
I didn't really see anything in Interstellar that made it necessary for the dialog to be drowned out by sound effects or the music score. I shrugged it off thinking it probably wasn't necessary to fully understand what the characters said.
Science fiction movies are sometimes seem bigger and better in scale when things are explained LESS. A bunch of trivial dialog can slow down the pace and even make the movie stupid. For example, "the force" in Star Wars seemed a whole lot more powerful and mysterious in the original trilogy than it did in those prequels (where it sounded like young Anakin Skywalker had an amazing level of swimming pool chemicals in his body).
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Nevertheless, a bad mix is a bad mix. And too damned loud is too damned loud.
Does any of the software in d-cinema servers allow one to set loudness levels for each specific program on the timeline or play list? I like movie trailers that have surround effects. However, I really dislike movie trailers that are mixed too freaking loud. In recent years I've grown pretty tired of movie trailers for all their same-ness, worn out clichés and spoilers.
Are the same people mixing sound for movie trailers doing audio work for TV networks? I mean, holy shit, do the people helming master control have no clue about volume levels? The commercial breaks are a LOT louder than the program on some networks, such as FX. I have to be Johnny on the spot with the mute button when the show goes to break. This is one of the reasons why I'm doing most of my TV series watching via Amazon Prime or Netflix (if it isn't on HBO). Cable TV commercial breaks are often very lengthy and some of those networks love spamming ads across the screen (even with sound) during the program you're trying to watch. My girlfriend and I finally got caught up watching Sons of Anarchy. We watched the first 6 seasons on Netflix or Amazon Prime. No commercial breaks and everything run at a fairly consistent volume level. We moved on to the first 10 episodes of SOA Season 7, recorded from the FX channel on my DVR. Jeez, not only are the commercials loud, but so is the VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED!!!!!! announcement.
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
A big factor is going to be the auditorium design, equipment, and calibration. A good THX theater should have no problem reproducing sound at the fader lever 7 as long as it was not recorded at a higher volume.
It doesn't matter if the house is THX certified or not. Different movies will have different volume levels in the mix. I've personally seen the fader in a good THX house forced downward by a mix that was way the hell too loud. While it might be possible to run one movie at 7 another might arrive and have to be turned down to 6 or even 5 to play at a comfortable level for people who like bombastic movies. We tried playing Goldeneye at 6.5 in a test run in a THX house here in Lawton. It was painfully loud. I couldn't imagine playing it at 7 the way the theater was set up. We couldn't get through the opening action sequence without turning down to 6. During regular shows it dropped to 5.5 due to loudness complaints. The THX house had been recently re-tuned when Seven arrived (that sounded awesome). There was nothing wrong with the theater setup. Goldeneye was just too hot a mix to run at 7 in that THX house.
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Carsten Kurz
Film God
Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted 11-17-2014 06:28 PM
Bobby, you can set individual volume cues every other second even within a feature.
Having said that - Nolan has been explicitly quoted that he doesn't believe 'clarity' is essential for a plot. I mean, people expect space to carry no sound - yet they seem to suggest that if someone says, cries or shouts something while his spacehip shudders and bursts, the dialog should still be intelligible. Why? I don't care in most of these situations, it is only realistic that you can not understand it. Human voices can just be part of a soundscape, they do not always have to be the leading role in the sound mix.
The idea that every single word spoken in a movie is equally important as the others - I don't believe that.
Yes, there are parts in Interstellar where dialog was not intelligible - btw, same in the german dub version.
Over the years since the very early science-fiction flics came out, space-ships became dirty, greasy, scarred. Why should dialog or soundmix in general not suffer the same?
I don't think the audience has a 'right' to understand every single word in a movie. They have a right for a top-notch presentation.
But the artistic expression of the creative people making the movie is an offer, not an obligation.
- Carsten
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