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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » The Afterlife   » Let the HD DVD format wars begin... (Page 7)

 
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Author Topic: Let the HD DVD format wars begin...
Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 10-05-2005 10:37 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since women in prison genre movies rock, do you think I can get hold of a copy of "Chained Heat" on Beta? Sybil Danning had such titanic knockers! Awwww, man! That brings back some early teen age memories of hijacking a Showtime signal!

I'd really flip out and laugh if that one showed up on Blu-Ray Disc.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-05-2005 11:32 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will be the Super VHS and LaserDisc of this generation.

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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 10-06-2005 01:11 PM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have Chained Heat on CED Videodisc [Smile] (And there's a Chained Heat 2 coming out on DVD soon but doesn't seem to have anyone from the original in it.)

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-10-2005 02:19 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jess, burn that CED to a DVD....FAST.

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Andy Summers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 397
From: Bournemouth Dorset United kingdom
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted 10-11-2005 02:42 PM      Profile for Andy Summers         Edit/Delete Post 
I always thought DVD was going to be a “Dead Video Disc” looks like it’s doing well though the cost of the DVD players around 10 years ago was an arm & a leg I mean bread dosh, now the DVD players cost less than the Star trek TV box set £39.00 at “ASDA” if you all get my meaning….

So come on HD-DVD, oh yeah is this a backward compatible format, you see I don’t what to buy something like HD-DVD if it can’t play DVD’s as well….

Still think they should add a newer sound format to it like SDDS….
[thumbsup] [Roll Eyes]

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 10-22-2005 12:04 AM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Another one for the Blu-ray camp:

Warner Bros joins Blu-ray Disc Association

And the DVD Forum has published their technical requirements and guidelines for HD-DVD (pdf document):

HD-DVD Video Product Requirements & Guidelines

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 10-22-2005 01:37 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Blu-Ray is looking more and more like a winning format -in the eyes of Hollywood studio chiefs. But I think that's about it.

Hewlett Packard was ready to endorse Blu-Ray disc drives for computers it will market in 2006, but had a reversal of opinion based on the extreme restrictions in how the format can be used. They're now looking more closely at HD-DVD, which doesn't have quite as restrictive scheme.

Microsoft chairman, Bill Gates, gave a speech this week stating that he didn't like either format. They won't be easy for customers to use. He also predicts they will not last long in the marketplace. Gates says within a few years most people will just download the movies they want to buy or just watch video on demand via IP. That may work if most broadband speeds are well over the 30Mb/s mark by the decade's end. My current DSL connection maxes out at 3Mb/s. Got a ways to go.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 10-29-2005 01:08 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's yet another news item to show many of the people working on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are idiots:

Link to Article

quote:
Most Monitors Won't Play New HD Video

Vista's content protection will block or blur high-def movies on today's displays.

Scott Spanbauer
From the November 2005 issue of PC World magazine
Posted Tuesday, October 04, 2005

If you dropped a bundle on a high-end computer display or HDTV, you could be in for an unpleasant surprise when you slip your new high-definition DVD of Star Wars: Episode III into your Windows Vista PC. Vista, the next version of Windows that's slated to appear in about a year, will feature a new systemwide content protection scheme called PVP-OPM (see box below). If your monitor doesn't work with PVP-OPM, all you'll likely see is either a fuzzy rendition of your high-def flick or Hollywood's version of the Blue Screen of Death--a message warning you that the display has been 'revoked'.

High-Def Hard-Liners

Forthcoming Blu-ray and HD-DVD discs promise higher resolution than a standard DVD's 480-line maximum. But to protect its high-quality content from pirating, the film industry, along with disc and hardware makers, has created an umbrella content protection scheme known as AACS. If Windows is to play the new discs, Microsoft has little choice but to support AACS, which is where PVP-OPM comes in. According to Microsoft, PVP-OPM will prevent pirates from attaching recording devices directly to the PC graphics card's DVI or HDMI video outputs in order to capture a pristine digital copy of the disc's otherwise encrypted content. A related component, PVP-UAB, will prevent savvy computer owners from installing data capture cards in order to grab high-def movies straight off the PCI Express bus.

Unfortunately, PVP-OPM will also shut out plenty of law-abiding video watchers whose current displays aren't future-proof. To comply with the film industry's protection scheme, PVP-OPM employs HDCP technology to determine whether graphics boards and displays are allowed to output and display high-def video. If HDCP sees a blocked display (such as a video capture device) or one that does not support HDCP (including any HDTV with only analog connectors), it prevents output or reduces the video resolution until the offending display or protected content is removed from the system.

Costly Upgrades

If that scenario sounds disturbing, it gets worse: Few existing wide-screen desktop displays support HDCP. If you're one of the hundreds of thousands of current wide-screen desktop display owners, you can probably forget about viewing Blu-ray or HD-DVD discs on your nearly new (and far from cheap) monitor. To watch high-def content, you'll likely have to upgrade your monitor. A handful of HDCP-compliant displays from NEC, Samsung, Sony, and ViewSonic are just starting to appear, according to market research firm iSuppli. And manufacturers such as Dell have plans to incorporate HDCP support into future wide-screen displays, though details are scarce.

Think you could avoid this expense by sticking with XP? No such luck. To see HD, you'll have to upgrade to Windows Vista as well; Windows XP's security and driver models lack the ability to support HDCP. Consumers intent on viewing HD discs via their PCs will have little choice but to spring for the new operating system in addition to an HDCP-compliant monitor.

Okay.

Now let me get this straight. The HDCP requirement (on DVI and HDMI connections) effectively locks out about 75% of existing HDTV set owners and any existing computer systems.

The math on this does not look very good.

Now, I called the folks doing the decision making on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray idiots. Maybe that's a bit harsh, but there has to be some explanation for the giant detail they overlooked:

You need to have a market in place, or in other words an ample supply of potential customers willing to buy HD-DVD players or Blu-Ray players when the format is launched.

If you're going to lock out every computer user and anyone who bought a HDTV before 2004 you're not going to be able to forecast any rosy format launch sales numbers. Not very many people are going to be willing to shit can their computer system or existing HDTV to watch a new disc based video format. We already have DVD, and for many people that may be just fine.

To wit, check the shit sales of DVD-A and SACD. I don't exactly see the music store shelves brimming with DVD-A and SACD content. The 20+ year old Red Book CD standard still seems to be by far the defacto standard for physical music disc sales.

Honestly, I hope both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray lay a big goose egg and provide their backers an infinite amount of humiliation. Once a few corporate honchos "fall on their swords" and a few other heads roll Sony, Toshiba and the Hollywood studios will go back to the drawing board and actually make a player people are willing to buy.

However, by the time that happens (let's say around 2010) Bill Gates' prediction may come true. He says Blu Ray and HD-DVD will be the last physical disc formats used to sell movies. By the end of the decade he predicts most of us will buy our movies online via next generation broadband connections. We'll either just watch video on demand or store the movies we want to keep on giant capacity hard discs (boasting stuff like perpendicular recording).

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-29-2005 02:18 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
People only want to pirate HD content. NOBODY pirates SD or lower quality, especially in the form of an internet download. Yeah. People only want HD quality and movie downloads that are 18GB each. Real smart. I wish I worked in that industry so I could be a dumbass.

Can anyone here please support the studios on this decision? I really want to ask someone "why?" and hear a logical, sane explanation. Then I want to BAN for being a fucking moron.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 10-29-2005 11:42 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Standard DVD worked because it was a big improvement over VHS. And all you had to buy was the DVD player. That's it.

HD-DVD and Blu-Ray? New player (gamble on which format will survive) and whole new home theater system and whole new computer system to be able to play the discs on either platform.

That's a lot of money Hollywood is expecting the public to spend.

Hmm. Let's see. The economic picture is not so rosy. Gas prices have everyone pissed off. Interest rates are rising. Home values are leveling off in many markets. So there's no more going to the bank and cashing out equity to spend. Effectively that is ruining the dumbass economic model America has been surviving on for the past 5 years: a credit card effectively.

Combine that picture with a product that is a pain in the ass to use, provided you even want to spend all that money on all that new hardware. You'll need a phone line or broadband connection hooked up to the player at all times so it can authenticate itself and the movies that play on it. Aside from the phyiscal pain of running new phone lines or CAT-5 cable (the players probably won't have any Wi-Fi capability), there's all the big brother is watching you paranoia people will have. The porn industry ought to be pretty concerned about that situation. I'm sure very few of their customers want video players that tell an outside party, "hey I'm watching Katie Morgan get gang banged in HiDef!"

quote: Joe Redifer
Real smart. I wish I worked in that industry so I could be a dumbass.
Yep. Those guys are living the life. Incompetent pricks likely getting paid six figures to make what is amounting to the most dumbassed marketing mistake in consumer electronics history. They certainly had to take some kind of stupid pills. Obviously they forgot how the general public told them to stick in their ass when they tried force the DiVX format on everyone.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 10-29-2005 11:56 AM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The November 2005 issue of "Widescreen Review" has a very well-written FAQ-format article on the HD DVD/Blu-ray issues with content protection. I don't know if it's available online or not. Things look kinda grim for consumers. It goes way beyond just a simple format war too.

Regarding 1080p displays: Sony's new SXRD TVs are capable of doing 1080p. Guess what though: If you try to input an external 1080p source the TV will not display it. Some crazy thing related to copy protection.

Regular old HDTV doesn't work right half the time. I was watching "Surface" in HD a couple weeks ago and the picture was very pixelated and loaded with motion artifacts. I emailed the station's chief engineer and his reply was "Oh yeah we had a new technician on duty that night and he screwed up. It'll be right next week." The next week, the broadcast started out in HD then about 5 minutes into it it switched to up-rez'd SD.

Then there's bandwidth and subchannels. Ha ha. The consumers have been fooled bigtime. Comcast's cable HD programming is compressed to less than half the b/w of what the OTA broadcast has (which itself is still limited due to subchannels).

The whole HDTV thing looks like a cluster fuck to me and I'm not spending another dollar on any of this new shit until the dust settles.

(There's also an excellent article in the same issue of WR about Dolby's upcoming audio technologies, including Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD.)

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-29-2005 06:47 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: David Stambaugh
Regular old HDTV doesn't work right half the time. I was watching "Surface" in HD a couple weeks ago and the picture was very pixelated and loaded with motion artifacts. I emailed the station's chief engineer and his reply was "Oh yeah we had a new technician on duty that night and he screwed up. It'll be right next week." The next week, the broadcast started out in HD then about 5 minutes into it it switched to up-rez'd SD.
Sounds like an NBC affiliate to me Was it? NBC affiliates are the WORST when it comes to HD. They always forget to switch it on or screw it up somehow. I hope you e-mailed the engineer again, quoting his last e-mail. NBC has their retarded weather channel stealing bandwidth from the HD channel, and they recently added a 3rd channel which pops up from time to time (on the .3 channel) that steals even MORE bandwidth, and all that channel does is display a radar or a web page. That one seems to be gone now, though.

quote: Bobby Henderson
Let's see. The economic picture is not so rosy. Gas prices have everyone pissed off. Interest rates are rising. Home values are leveling off in many markets.
Don't forget rising heating bills, going up by over a 3rd for NO REASON AT ALL. They are charging more just because they can. My anus feels so tender.

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Andy Summers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 397
From: Bournemouth Dorset United kingdom
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted 10-29-2005 07:17 PM      Profile for Andy Summers         Edit/Delete Post 
Software for HDTV the newer HD-DVD will be a great format?

How much does a HDTV cost and do they do HD-video projectors and the cost of them as well?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-29-2005 07:48 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They cost between 1,000 and 2,000 lbs.

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Andy Summers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 397
From: Bournemouth Dorset United kingdom
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted 10-29-2005 07:55 PM      Profile for Andy Summers         Edit/Delete Post 
$2.000 quid hay, that’s cheep…

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