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Topic: Anyone consuming HD or Blu-ray?

Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-08-2008 01:43 AM

quote: Whoops! Movie Goofs
There are quite a few scenes in The Patriot where you can clearly see the boom slip down into the picture. One is when the oldest son is outside talking to his dad (Mel Gibson). Whoops!

How much you wanna bet that the person who spotted and submitted this "mistake" observed the mic boom while watching a "full frame" presentation on TV? The 1.33:1 version used for ancillary markets would not have been transferred from a scope release print; it would have been sourced from a spherical element which includes a plentiful amount of unintended top & bottom imagery not seen in the release prints.

I'd say that nine times out of ten, whenever there is a visible mic boom or nudity gag "mistake," they're only mistakes in the 1.33:1 non-theatrical version.

quote: Ron Fumblebum
And Michael one would think that a film critic...

What are you smoking? Film Critic is not my occupation! I'm not really sure how best to describe what I do for a living, but film critic is not it.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 03-08-2008 02:21 AM

quote: Ron Funderburg
You could get it out if your plates weren't filed out all the way.

If the theater was setup properly, there is barely any play in the framing possible on a scope film. I have to say Michael's suggestion that this may have been something seen on tv sounds the most logical.

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 03-08-2008 07:50 PM

I give up don't care. I have it in my note book from 2000, I received the memo asking to frame has high as possible to try to avoid the mic being seen and I saw the damn boom hanging down but you guys know better than me so you are right and I am wrong. Just think what you like.

TV prints are made from same negs as the others so how does this change the top of the frame? They don't use separate cameras to film the TV version they take it from a print or negative and pan and scan to crop the sides to fit not the height of them frame. If anything they would have cut from the top to hide the mic on any subsequent copies not added in new mistakes.

And again I really don't care it is of no importance in the grand plan so you guys can call me what you like I don't care.

Sorry for the mistake on your profession Michael.

I assure you guys I got the memo and the damn mic was visible in the early scenes. We asked to frame the film as high as possible to attempt to hide or lessen the visibility of the mic.

But again the truth of a matter doesn't matter just believe what you want. At this point if I said the Redcoats wore Red Coats you would say they were blue I get it I'm going to be wrong because you don't agree with me. Point made!

Okay maybe I care a little but not much.

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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 03-08-2008 08:32 PM

I too remember getting a note asking us to frame THE PATRIOT as high as possible. I think Ron's right about the reason being visible boom mic's. However I don't remember seeing any in the movie. Then again, I've done my best to forget as much as possible about that movie.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 03-08-2008 08:44 PM

quote: Ron Funderburg
TV prints are made from same negs as the others so how does this change the top of the frame?

Well, since you asked:

The film was shot on the much-celebrated "Super35" film format. The aspect ratio of this amazing format is 1.33:1 or so. When they go and make the "scope" prints, they just mask the top and bottom off. When they show it on TV, they unmask that so it fits on the device which is commonly known to consumers as "the TV". So you actually see more on TV than you do in the movie theater. This is because TVs are better than movie theaters.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-08-2008 10:11 PM

No, it's because consumers are stupid and would flood the TV stations with "My picture is too small" phone calls if the true version was shown.

Ron if you're so sure about this and you still have the damn memo, why don't you just post a picture of it?

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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 03-08-2008 10:53 PM

This is talked about in the "Patriot Looks Grainy" thread in the Film Handler's Forum (which I can't figure out how to link to).

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-08-2008 11:09 PM

Patriot looks grainy

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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 03-08-2008 11:17 PM

Thanks, Mike. Here's a quote from the most relevant post:

quote:
John Walsh wrote:
"There was a note in the can with "The Patriot," that said to move the framing up as far as it will go with out seeing frame lines. At first I thought it was to compensate for theaters that run 2:1, but after Francis' comment about the frame line wandering, I wonder."

I noticed when one of my projectionists framed "Patriot" just a bit low that the boom mic wandered in and out of frame. Specifically in the scene where Gabriel signs up for the Continentals without permission. I fixed the framing after that scene so I don't know if it happened again.

Let's all just keep in mind that THE PATRIOT is by the guys who made 10,000 B.C., so...

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-09-2008 03:02 AM

Just to try to pull things back on topic, did anyone in this forum see the statements made by Toshiba's CEO, Atsutoshi Nishida during an interview with the Wall Street Journal? Here's one of the things he floated:

quote: Atsutoshi Nishida
If you watch standard DVDs on our [DVD] players, the images are of very high quality because they include an ‘upconverting’ feature. And we're going to improve this even more, so that consumers won't be able to tell the difference from HD DVD images. The players would be much cheaper than Blu-ray players too. Next-generation DVD players are in a much weaker position than when standard DVD players were first introduced.

It seems pretty strange to make a statement that upconverted DVD material is comparable to native 1080p content. It's especially strange given the fortune Toshiba poured into marketing, developing and distributing HD-DVD. If upconverting standard DVD was good enough, why bother selling HD-DVD in the first place?

Just to satisfy some curiosity about upconversion, I did an A-B comparison using Casino Royale since I have copies of it on both DVD and BD. I played both copies simultaneously in a HDMI connected DVD player and a PS3 so I could switch back and forth between HDMI inputs. DVD upconverted to 1080p looks decent. But the BD version is in an entirely higher class of quality.

Later in the Wall Street Journal interview Atsutoshi said he would like to put more resources into the HD video download market. Again, that seems pretty strange considering some of the business failures in that market.

Apple is also running into problems with their HD rental service, despite the strength of their brand name. They don't have nearly as many movies for sale or rent as they had planned. Negative reaction is growing as people discover the content is only 720p, not 1080p. The 720p material is savagely compressed down to bit rates around 4Mb/s -around half of what you get with a decent 480p DVD quality bit stream. And when you rent it, your rental expires within 24 hours of the download. For the same money, I can get a native 1080p BD movie from Hollywood Video or Hastings and keep the disc for 5 or 7 days. The BD movies usually come with a lot more stuff than just merely the movie.

Although Toshiba says they have no plans to market a Blu-ray Disc player, many believe the company will do so eventually. It could happen in a year or two. Toshiba participated with Sony and IBM in developing the Cell processor used in Playstation 3 consoles and certain IBM super computers. Sony recently sold a Cell chip fab plant to Toshiba for $835 million. Toshiba could incorporate the Cell CPU into new products, such as a BD Live capable Blu-ray player.

The Digital Bits' Bill Hunt and DVD File's Dan Ramer have judged Nishida's statements as just more anti-BD resentment. Hopefully that's all that it is instead of it turning into another organized campaign against Blu-ray.

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 03-09-2008 11:27 AM

Mike I didn't keep the memo I keep my booth log's so I don't have to keep up with every individual piece of paper that we receive in the booth. Also keep in the log repairs to each projector, brain wraps or film breaks, and any problem in the booth. I have my logs all the way back to 1973. I never said I had the memo just I received it.

Bobby getting back on subject with you. My assistant manager is was nut for HD DVD and read that but after seeing some Blu-ray movies run from playstation he is planing to buy either play station or a Blu-Ray player.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-09-2008 12:02 PM

Even if I buy another Blu-ray Disc player (well after I buy a new receiver capable of Dolby True-HD & DTS-HD), I'd still keep the PS3 connected as well for all the extra stuff it can do. It's a very nice multi-media center for playing movies, music, photos/graphics and games.

You get so much more for your money with a PS3 than you do with other standalone Blu-ray players. I think that point alone will help force down the prices of standalone BD players over the next several months.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 03-09-2008 12:07 PM

Bobby, obviously their tune has changed... BECAUSE THEY LOST.

If you had asked them a year ago "Is an upconverted DVD gonna look as good as a 1080p source?" they would've told you "No way; no how." But now they're sore losers.

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 03-09-2008 12:37 PM

John Walks posted this on 07-01-2000 at 10:52

quote:
There was a note in the can with "The Patriot," that said to move the framing up as far as it will go with out seeing frame lines. At first I thought it was to compensate for theaters that run 2:1, but after Francis' comment about the frame line wandering, I wonder.

Our print also has wavy lines in it. It looks a little like when you try to video-tape a movie off of the screen; wavy likes that move up.

Dave Cutler Posted the following on this site on 07-03-2000 at 03:48 pm

quote:
John Walsh wrote:

"There was a note in the can with "The Patriot," that said to move the framing up as far as it will go with out seeing frame lines. At first I thought it was to compensate for theaters that run 2:1, but after Francis' comment about the frame line wandering, I wonder."

I noticed when one of my projectionists framed "Patriot" just a bit low that the boom mic wandered in and out of frame. Specifically in the scene where Gabriel signs up for the Continentals without permission. I fixed the framing after that scene so I don't know if it happened again.

------------------
Dave Cutler

"Do or do not, there is no try."

Michael thank you for helping me find more information to back up my statements.

Bobby I'm buying the PS3 I think that is all I will need. They have light years to go before upconvert is anywhere near HD Blu-ray quality.

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Mike Heenan
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1896
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-09-2008 03:23 PM

I bought my dad a Sony Blu Ray dvd player for christmas, and I watched Cannonball Run upconverted, and it looked fantastic, but then I watched a little bit of Catch me if you can upconverted, and it looked bad.

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