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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » The Afterlife   » DTV Feb 17 Deadline May Be Delayed (Page 11)

 
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Author Topic: DTV Feb 17 Deadline May Be Delayed
Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-21-2009 12:09 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Reception problems linger after DTV transition

by Peter Svensson - Jun. 16, 2009 02:22 PM
Associated Press

NEW YORK - The shutdown of U.S. analog TV service on Friday appears to have gone relatively smoothly, but as expected, a lot of viewers are having problems getting the stations they want.

The problems have ensnared even the technologically sophisticated.

Wally Grotophorst in Hamilton, Va., got a "digital" antenna for his digital TV last year. But on Friday, he lost the Washington-based ABC and CBS stations, channels 7 and 9, which he could pick up digitally before the transition.

That's because those stations, like dozens of others, switched their digital signals from the UHF frequency band to the VHF band as they cut their analog signals Friday. But Grotophorst's antenna, like many others branded as "digital" and sold over the past few years, was designed only for UHF stations. Nearly all TV stations were using the UHF band for the digital broadcasts until Friday.

"This moving down to the VHF spectrum was news. The stations didn't advertise the fact," Grotophorst said.

He's now regretting that he recycled his old rooftop VHF antenna.

Officials for those stations had no immediate comment.

There are TV antennas that can receive both UHF and VHF bands. In the indoor version, these have long extendable poles - the "rabbit ears" - for VHF reception and a loop for UHF.

Brett Whitten, a technology consultant in Philadelphia, lost the ABC-affiliated Channel 6 for the same reason. He was unsuccessful in attempts to improvise a VHF antenna out of wire, helped by instructions he found online.

According to a Monday evening newscast, that station was talking to the Federal Communications Commission to see if it could increase its output power. That could help with reception, at least for those who have VHF antennas.

The FCC said it is examining reports of signal loss by viewers of some stations in Chicago, Philadelphia and New York.

The FCC said more than 20 percent of the 317,450 callers to its help line on Friday had problems receiving at least one station, making it the most frequent problem after converter-box setup and requests for converter-box coupons.

Those converter boxes allow older, analog sets to view digital signals after Friday's cutoff, following years of planning, of the transmission technology in use since the days of Milton Berle and Howdy Doody. The digital signals are more efficient, freeing up airwaves for cell phones and other services.

If a station is missing, viewers should first try to force the converter box or digital TV to "rescan" the airwaves for channels that moved to new frequencies on Friday.

For those who aren't helped by that, the FCC put out a new advisory Monday recommending "double rescanning." That involves disconnecting the antenna from the box or TV, rescanning, turning off the box or TV, then turning it back on, connecting the antenna and scanning one more time. The procedure can clear the box or TV's memory of saved channel information that is now incorrect, the commission said.

All full-power stations have now shut down their analog signals. Some low-power stations and rural relays known as "translators" are still broadcasting in analog.


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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-30-2009 08:48 PM      Profile for Bruce Hansen   Email Bruce Hansen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Joe Redifer
I thought that ALL digital TV was required to be in the UHF band and that the VHF frequencies were reserved for "emergency services" or some such nonsense.

Channel 52 through 69 are what is going away. This is what the cell phone and internet companies want. VHF is still for TV, but low band VHF (2 - 6) has impulse noise problems, and skip problems that were an annoyance in analog, but totally destructive to digital. I have read about a couple of stations going back to ch. 6 for digital, so it may be far enough away from the problems to be usable for digital. No one, such as the cell phone companies, wants VHF because of the problems.

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted 07-01-2009 11:19 AM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Another problem, at least here in the San Francisco
Bay Area, is that many of the stations are temporarily
operating at reduced power from 'stand-by' antennas
at lower elevations on Sutro Tower, the main transmitting
point for this area, while new antennas for the digital
transmitters are being installed at the top of the tower.

The combination of lower elevation and reduced power
has caused reception loss for many areas outside The City.
One of the reasons given for the low power operation is
to avoid exposing tower workers to excessive RF energy.

The process of moving all the stations to the new
antennas is expected to take at least thru October Y2k9.

Anyone interested can see diagrams of the old and
new tower configurations

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted 07-01-2009 11:27 AM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Another problem, at least here in the San Francisco Bay Area,
is that many of the stations are temporarily operating at reduced
power from 'stand-by' antennas at lower elevations on Sutro Tower,
the main transmitting point for this area, while new antennas for
the digital transmitters are being installed at the top of the tower.

The combination of lower elevation and reduced power has caused
reception loss for many areas outside The City.

One of the reasons given for the low power operation is to avoid
exposing tower workers to excessive RF energy.

The process of moving all the stations to the new antennas is
expected to take at least thru October Y2k9.

Anyone interested can see diagrams of the old and new tower
configurations At This Link

Sutro Tower At Sunrise. Transmitting Antennas Are 1811ft ASL
 -
(I took this early one morning on a hill not far from my house)

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-02-2009 03:02 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jim Cassedy was the last to post
One of the reasons given for the low power operation is to avoid
exposing tower workers to excessive RF energy.

Well, tower workers know and live with that danger just about every day. When I was an air switcher back in the old time TV days of the 1980's we sometimes had to lower our transmitter power to 1/4 just so the tower guy could pass by the antenna bays... Taking a transmitter that low distorts the hell out of the signal and you have to compensate the sync/video levels at the same time you're lowering the power. Transmitter was 100kw TTU-1000 System had an erp of 1.2 million up on the John Hancock Tower in Chicago. Now the Germans are figuring out how to "print" a 100kw transmitter with a printing press or something to that extent....

Mark

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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 08-31-2009 05:46 PM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The last commercial break and shut-down on KOVR channel 13 in Sacramento: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UPXey2tzAc

And KXTV Channel 10 (the only English-speaking station in the area to stay on til midnight)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6JxTEKWM7k

Turn off HQ if you get an error message.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-31-2009 08:45 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We still have one hold out analog TV transmitter running here in SLC. I was up on Farnsworth Peak about two weeks ago and Azteca TV one of the Mexican channels just doesn't have the bucks for a new DTV transmitter. Their UHF is still up and running albeit at lower power than normal. I posted a few quick videos of the site up there you may find interesting. But keep in mind they are quick hand held stuff shot with my Kodak Zi6. There are only two other transmitter sites like this one in the USA.

Only analog transmitter still running in SLC area.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2Ypmfb9vso

DTV transmitters UPS Supply
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7geiYFOK2zw

3000 HP 1.2 MW back up genny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_c0OgHRrZE

Farnsworth Peak DTV Transmitter Building.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDUw3KsOiGU

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-31-2009 09:02 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are some analog channels here in the Denver metro area as well, still running.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-01-2009 07:03 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Do those analog stations have special permits or variants from the FCC? Weren't all TV stations were supposed to go to digital under the new mandate?

Here's a question -- listening to these sign-offs, the stations give their official company names and none of them now use their original company names. Do any of the big three networks still retain their original names, at least on paper, i.e., the Columbia Broadcasting System, the National Broadcasting Company or the American Broadcasting Company?

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Sam Graham
AKA: "The Evil Sam Graham". Wackiness ensues.

Posts: 1431
From: Waukee, IA
Registered: Dec 2004


 - posted 09-01-2009 08:15 AM      Profile for Sam Graham   Author's Homepage   Email Sam Graham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We have a 24-hour home shopping channel on 41 still running as well.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-01-2009 09:17 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Translator and low-power stations are allowed to continue with analog broadcasting for another couple of years. Is that what these are?

I wonder who would be watching these stations, though. At this point, anyone who cares about television already has a converter box (or cable or a dish or a newish TV set with ATSC tuner). To go back to analog would just be an annoyance, especially just for one station. It would be even more annoying the remaining stations are VHF, since that would require maintaining both types of antennae, even when nearly all of the digital stations are on UHF.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

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From: Music City
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 - posted 09-01-2009 09:38 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I seriously doubt the FCC authorized an VHF stations to stay on the air... UHF wouldn't cause any problems. It's the VHF bands that had been long ago sold off for other uses. In Joe's case I believe the environmentalists were fighting the construction of many DTV transmitter sites because they involve being on or near a mountain top and this may be the reason for many analog xmitters still running there.

Mark

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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-01-2009 12:31 PM      Profile for Bruce Hansen   Email Bruce Hansen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is channels 52 through 69 that were sold. VHF is still for TV. Here in Atlanta we still have two DTV VHF channels. CH 8 is PBS, and CH 10 is NBC. No one wants low band VHF due to the impulse noise problems, it screws with digital. It is the 700Mhz band (CH 52-69) that the cell and computer comm people want.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

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From: Music City
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 - posted 09-01-2009 09:51 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the clarification n that Bruce. I also found out today that in southern Utah all the UHF and VHF analog transmitters are still up and functioning. Things are just as though they were before analog was shut down in most areas. This is in the Cedar City and St George areas.

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Andy Bajew
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 136
From: Bellaire, Texas
Registered: Jun 2009


 - posted 09-01-2009 10:21 PM      Profile for Andy Bajew   Email Andy Bajew   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Personally I don't think the Government shouda handed out free coupons to anyone that wanted them...
Good point there. My parents have seven TV's with cable in the house, but my dad still got three of the coupons so he could put a receiver in the garage, the workout room, and one just in case.

Very excessive seeing as how it is just two people who live in the house..

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