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Author
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Topic: DTV Feb 17 Deadline May Be Delayed
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Stephen Furley
Film God
Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002
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posted 01-26-2009 01:19 PM
Analogue television is also being phased out here; I think a couple of areas have gone, but more most of the Country there's a bit more time yet, I think the last analogue is due to go in a couple of years or so, but I haven't seen any actual dates yet. It will happen at different times in different regions. The shutdown seems to be wanted by the government, in order to be able to sell the use of he existing radio spectrum for other purposes.
We've had three previous shutdowns of television service; the first happened soon after the BBC started their television service, in 1936. At first they transmitted on two different systems alternately, the Baird one (with 240 lines I think) and the 405 line Marconi-EMI one. After a short time, a few months I think, the Baird system was dropped. Since this happened so soon after the start of service the Baird viewers obviously wouldn't have got much notice, but there would have been only a small number of them.
The second shutdown was a temporary one, on the outbreak of war, in 1939, and I think the service was resumed in 1946.
Obviously both of these were quite different to the analogue shutdown which is happening now.
The last shutdown is more like the current one. In 1964 we had two channels, both on 405 lines, VHF. That year the third channel, BBC2, went on the air, on 625 lines UHF. the two existing channels continued on 405 lines as before, so all new sets were made dual-standard. In 1967 the two older channels started broadcasting on 625 lines UHF, and manufacture of dual-standard sets was dropped. However, 405 line transmissions continued for many years for people with old 405 line only sets. The 405 line transmissions were finally shut down in 1985. I'm not sure when the last 405 line single standard sets were made, it may have been some time before 625 line transmissions started in 1964, but it would not have been later, so any remaining sets still in use when the service was finally shut down would have been over twenty years old at the time; there cannot have been many of them still in use.
The was a significant difference to the current situation of course, there were no set-top boxes in those days to allow the old sets to continue to function; 625-405 line standards converters were something that broadcasters had a handful of, they weren't something you could have at home. Whether it was worth continuing the 405 line transmissions for quite as long as was done is doubtful; it would probably have been cheaper to replace the few old sets still in use.
There was an advantage to the closing down of the old 405 line service; it meant the end of the dreaded 10.125 kHz. line whistle that you used to get with it.
There seem to be two main objections to the analogue shutdown, firstly, there are some people in 'difficult' areas who can receive analogue signals, but not digital ones, and some people feel that the picture quality on the highly-compressed digital transmissions is not as good as on the analogue ones. While this may have been true in the past, the analogue pictures has been so messed around with digitally before it reaches the transmitters that I doubt if there's much difference now.
I think the analogue transmissions should continue for several more years yet, but if you compare it to the shutdown of the analogue mobile 'phone networks, that happened much more quickly, not very long after they stopped selling analogue 'phones, and people did have to buy new ones then.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 01-26-2009 01:44 PM
quote: Chris Slycord
On the other hand, there's a HUGE difference between saying "Not everyone is honest" and "I'm dismissing the whole survey because some people aren't honest." Most people are, in fact, honest.
Even if everyone in that list was honest, it still doesn't let them off the hook for waiting until the very last minute to do anything about DTV. They got a 3 year reprieve when the original May, 2006 analog cut-off date was pushed back to February, 2009. It's too bad for them they didn't take advantage of the extra time to get prepared for the change. Come June 12 they'll be begging for yet another deadline extension.
How many more DTV deadline delays will it take for the last few million people to be ready for the change? The charade could go on without any end in sight. Some people are only going to take the steps they need to take for DTV only after the analog TV signals are eliminated.
quote: Steve Guttag
Personally, I think it is all a bunch of BS. They should have left well-enough alone.
Do you mean HDTV broadcast technology shouldn't have been developed at all?
quote: Steve Guttag
Who would have thunk that the actual air waves were going to change?
The decision to make HDTV a digital-based process was made nearly 20 years ago. When that decision was made certain analog-based HDTV systems had already been in existence for a decade.
The long, drawn out transition to HDTV is a process that has spanned more time than the ages of some members of this forum. It isn't something that was dreamed up just yesterday. I find it very difficult to believe average Americans have only just recently become aware of HDTV and the impending switch.
I can sympathize with the concerns that someone's prized, still perfectly functional CRT SDTV would be rendered obsolete by this switch of broadcast standards. A converter box will at least keep the TV set functional. Maybe the converter box won't be compatible with all the bells and whistles of the old TV set. But at least it will still work.
I've had thousands of dollars worth of computer hardware rendered obsolete over the years merely by simple changes in operating systems or new computer motherboard designs. For instance, I have a Linotype-Hell Saphir2 flatbed SCSI scanner that cost me $1300 a decade ago. The thing is little more than a door stop now; its software isn't compatible with the latest operating systems and it's a PITA to connect to any modern PC or Mac. I simply don't have the heart to chunk it into a dumpster since it cost so much money. But that's the reality with computing hardware. And the same holds true of other things like video game consoles, cellphones, certain household appliances and more. What makes TV any different in that cycle? The SD NTSC color TV broadcast standard had a very long life. Now it's overdue to be replaced with a much better system.
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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008
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posted 01-26-2009 02:30 PM
I vividly remember the front page of a technology magazine of the early 80's proclaiming that HDTV was coming soon to the homes. And it did. In Japan, where the analog muse-HD standard, which roughly delivered 1125 horizontal scanning lines of "resolution", started to broadcast in 1980.
Ever since it has been "HDTV is coming, HDTV is coming" here in Europe. Well, roughly speaking, in Spain, as today, we pretty much only get *ONE* HDTV channel and that's only if you su$cribe to $atellite TV.
About obsolete electronics/computer equipment ... don't tell me about it. From $10k imaging Targa boards, to CRT-based 35mm film recorders, to $50k Laserdisc recorders I have a warehouse full I don't have the heart to throw away and hope a flood or something forces me to. Most of it is, of course, less than 20 years old. Some, even 10 years old.
Most of it works fine. But as Bobby says, software support is just not there anymore, plus current replacements are twice-as-good and half-as-expensive, so it makes more sense to invest in new equipment than deal with the old one.
And Digital Cinema is going to head about the same way ...
I know of a lot of Post houses that had to close due to the cost and rate of equipment obsolence. One minute you were spending $1million in a telecine suite only to have your competitor leave you obsolete 6 years later.
Hollywood is shifting to 4K sooner rather than later. In 10 years, 2K won't be but what 1.3K is today. Obsolete, hard to maintain and support equipment nobody gives a rat's for ...
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 01-26-2009 07:37 PM
Yep. I think that's how it's going to be regardless of whether the change happens on Feb. 17 or June 12. We'll still see some chaos the day after provided if the government actually has the balls to follow through on the switch.
The DTV deadline delay bill has some interesting provisions. President Obama has called for $650 million in stimulus spending (taxpayer money) to help offset costs of the four month delay -such as helping local TV stations foot the bill for running a full power DTV signal in addition to a dying, legacy analog signal.
The bill will also allow stations who are prepared to shut off their analog signals to do so at their own choice after February 17. I laughed when I read that. In one respect it makes the June 12 delay bill pointless, especially if lots of TV stations cut off their analog signals at the previously planned Feb. 17 date. The downside is those same TV stations could be flooded with lots of angry phone calls from folks unprepared for the switch.
So basically the government is passing the buck to the local broadcasters, "hey, it's up to you if you want to turn off your analog signals. You can save a lot of money on transmission power bills, but then you'll piss off a lot of people in your viewing market and have no one else but yourself to blame. Have a nice day!"
This DTV delay bill is a crock of shit. Despite the progress this bill is making through the Senate and House, I'm still seeing lots of PSA commercials talking about the Feb. 17 deadline date. The web sites of the TV stations in my local viewing market all have DTV countdown slates. 22 days and counting.
If this June 12 delay bill is passed, I think the TV networks still need to push those Feb. 17 commercials. Scare the analog hold outs into action anyway. After all, some stations may still switch to DTV only broadcasts after that date. Maintaining the legacy analog broadcasts is optional.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 01-26-2009 09:19 PM
Well, the US Senate did their part on this DTV delay.
Senate OKs 4-month delay to digital TV changeover (AP)
quote: Andrew Taylor, Associated Press
Posted on Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:31PM EST
WASHINGTON - The Senate on Monday voted unanimously to postpone the upcoming transition from analog to digital television broadcasting by four months to June 12 — setting the stage for Congress to pass the proposal as early as Tuesday.
Monday's Senate vote is a big victory for the Obama administration and Democrats in Congress, who have been pushing for a delay amid growing concerns that too many Americans won't be ready for the currently scheduled Feb. 17 changeover.
The Nielsen Co. estimates that more than 6.5 million U.S. households that rely on analog television sets to pick up over-the-air broadcast signals could see their TV sets go dark next month if the transition is not postponed.
"Delaying the upcoming DTV switch is the right thing to do," said Senate Commerce Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., author of the bill to push back the deadline. "I firmly believe that our nation is not yet ready to make this transition at this time."
The issue now goes to the House, where Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., has vowed to work with House leaders to bring Rockefeller's bill up for a floor vote on Tuesday.
President Barack Obama earlier this month called for the transition date to be postponed after the Commerce Department hit a $1.34 billion funding limit for government coupons that consumers may use to help pay for digital TV converter boxes. The boxes, which generally cost between $40 and $80 each and can be purchased without a coupon, translate digital signals back into analog ones for older TVs.
The National Telecommunications and Information Administration, the arm of the Commerce Department administering the program, is now sending out new coupons only as older, unredeemed ones expire and free up more money. The NTIA had nearly 2.6 million coupon requests on a waiting list as of last Wednesday.
Jonathan Collegio, vice president for the digital television transition for the National Association of Broadcasters, argues that the Nielsen numbers may overstate the number of viewers who are not ready for the digital transition. He noted that the numbers exclude consumers who have already purchased a converter box but not yet installed it, as well as those who have requested coupons but not yet received them.
What's more, consumers who subscribe to cable or satellite TV service or who own a TV with a digital tuner will not lose reception.
Still Gene Kimmelman, vice president for federal policy at Consumers Union, argues that millions of Americans — particularly low-income and elderly viewers — will pay the price because "the government has failed to deliver the converter boxes these people deserve just to keep watching free, over-the-air broadcast signals."
In 2005, Congress required broadcasters to switch from analog to digital signals, which are more efficient, to free up valuable chunks of wireless spectrum to be used for commercial wireless services and interoperable emergency-response networks.
Republicans in both the House and Senate have raised concerns that a delay would confuse consumers, burden wireless companies and public safety agencies waiting for the airwaves that will be vacated and create added costs for television stations that would have to continue broadcasting both analog and digital signals.
Paula Kerger, president and CEO of the Public Broadcasting Service, estimates that delaying the digital TV transition to June 12 would cost public broadcasters $22 million.
But Rockefeller managed to ease some of these concerns by allowing broadcast stations to make the switch from analog to digital signals sooner than the June deadline if they choose and by permitting public safety agencies to take over vacant spectrum that has been promised to them as soon as it becomes available.
___
Associated Press writer Andrew Taylor contributed to this report.
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 01-27-2009 03:34 AM
What's all the damn fuss about? It's not electricty, or water, or gasoline, it's freakin television. It's not an essential to life. Those 6M people won't wither up and die if they can't watch TV. Once they don't have it, maybe they will get their butts off the couch and do something for themselves if they really want miss it that much. What's the government worrying about, that people might not be able to see crappy TV shows? They subsidised the converter boxes but....ooops, they ran out of money; typically accurate government planning. Hey, just print up some more money as is the trend today and bail out the people who are at serious risk of missing HOLLYWOOD INSIDER. This is such a threat to national security that it's one of the very first issue to be considered in the new congress. They have determined that threat is SO potentially toxic that the next thing they will do will be to actually just hand out FREE digital TVs to those still in mortal danger of living in a TV-less home. Or perhaps give everyone free cable subscriptions for a year. Excuse me while I puke.
I say, let them do what most of us did when we were part of that segment of the population who didn't have a TV in our house and others did. We found a friend who had one and went to his house to watch HOWDY DOODY. And when he wasn't home, WE DID WITHOUT. There's a concept Soft, Spineless America, DO WITHOUT, or at least do without government holding the national hand to protect us from (gasp!) blank TV screens. The governement didn't give my dad a coupon so he should hurry and buy us a TV set in the 1950s. And we didn't become zombies, walking the streets because we couldn't watch television.
Here's an idea, GIVE THEM FREE LIBRARY CARDS. In fact, I would have made that a prerequisit for getting that $40 coupon. All children in a household would have to spend 120 hours in a public library before they would get the Converter Box Bailout.
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