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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » The Afterlife   » DTV Feb 17 Deadline May Be Delayed (Page 3)

 
This topic comprises 12 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  ...  10  11  12 
 
Author Topic: DTV Feb 17 Deadline May Be Delayed
Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-27-2009 09:40 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm a bit confused as to why the politicians seem to think that it would be such a tragedy if Aunt Millie lost access to television reception that this transition should be subsidized with taxpayer dollars.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-27-2009 09:46 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You can't really discuss the reason for it all without going into politics, when it comes right down to it. There is one group that thinks the way all of us here (who have posted) do, and then there's another group that wants to "help those in need" even though the "need" is laughable in this case.

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Mark Ogden
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 943
From: Little Falls, N.J.
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-27-2009 09:50 AM      Profile for Mark Ogden   Email Mark Ogden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Let's not even get into all the logistics and bookings that have been put into place by now, tower crews, field engineers and the like. If I were running a heavily masted, diplexed/multiplexed structure, say something like Sutro Tower in San Francisco, I'd be ready to climb to the top and jump the fuck off at this point.

Not for nothing but I'd wager that most stations, especially the higher powered UHF ones, cut over on the 17th anyway. Everything is in place. As far as viewers go, the Best Buy down the hill from me has converter boxes stacked up the ass and out the gullet, and the Circuit City has them at 10 - 20% off while they last, which judging by the parking lot there yesterday, won't be long.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 01-27-2009 11:29 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The GM for one of our local TV stations wrote me an e-mail saying they were going to keep their DTV signal at full power regardless of the June 12 delay. Another is still going forward with plans to change its DTV signal to full power during the first week in February. So much work has already been completed that the schedule can't simply be thrown out the window at the last minute.

The broadcasters have difficult choices to make and unfortunately will look like the bad guy regardless of what direction they choose.

The TV stations in my viewing market may choose to reduce the power on the analog transmission to a low level to where only viewers who live in the immediate area of Lawton or Wichita Falls would be able to pick up the OTA analog signal at all. They also may "cut to the chase" and eliminate the broadcast content on the analog signal, replacing it with a static slate on where to get information to convert to DTV. My understanding is they have to do something like that anyway for 30 days after the big switch.

The local TV stations can't count on the $650 million government spending package to help offset costs of this delay since it is attached to that $800 billion economic stimulus bill. That huge stimulus bill has a high risk of being blocked by filibuster. For the time being it doesn't appear practical for TV stations to continue running analog and DTV signals both at full power for four months. It won't be practical without outside help.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-27-2009 02:19 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Our DTV signal(s) here in SLC have been at full power since day one. Its an entirely new facility built up on Farnsworth Peak and was built and has been operational since the Winter Olympics that were held here.

quote: Bobby Henderson
It won't be practical without outside help.
Just the cost of Electrical power for a 100kw tranny is in the neighborhood of 50K a month!

Mark

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 01-27-2009 06:08 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Louisville will cut over on schedule.

Channel 11 (abc) reduced analog power back in November. Channel 3 (nbc) is already at full power on analog and digital from 2 seperate sites. The existing uhf stations cannot run full power on both a nd d because of (temporary) building limitations, which will go away at the same time as analog.

Like cd's, the new digital signal is either very good or not at all. Therefore it is impossible to predict what a full power digital will be like until it is produced. For a given power, the new digital transmitters consume much less power from "the wall." There is some component of saving money on this.

Not unexpectedly screwed up. I bet my old broadcast engineer friends $5000 that this would not happen on time; they only laughed. I did this 4 years ago. (It has been delayed at least 3 times before!) Louis

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-27-2009 10:55 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Louis Bornwasser
For a given power, the new digital transmitters consume much less power from "the wall." There is some component of saving money on this.

Very definately not true in most large markets, Chicago, L.A.,Salt Lake City, New York City, etc. Most DTV transmitters were constructed in the UHF band which requires yet more radiated power to effectively cover a given area and draws ALOT MORE from the wall plug. 1200 amp three phase feeds for 100kw UHF transmitters are very common. For instance KSL in our area had an ERP of about 33kw on VHF channel 5 and probably required a 15 to 20kw transmitter to achieve with sufficient gain from the antenna bays. This VHF transmitter would be considered relatively inexpensive to operate. While it's DTV signal on channel 38 has an ERP of 546kw... which very defrinately takes a 100kw transmitter and an antenna bay with some gain to achieve. The 33kw VHF transmitter had a way lower monthly electric bill than it's sister DTV transmitter does. Also transmitters this large generally still use Klystron finals... usually three of the roughly $75,000.00 to $150,000.00 vaccum toobes... Generally 2-Visual klystrons and one aurl klystron. On top of all this now those stations that had installed smallish transmitters... PBS in Reno for instance had a 1kw transmitter... now they all have to install brand new high power equipment than they were originally operating. It all spells alot more $$$$$$$$$ to broadcast DTV in just about all markets.

Mark

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Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1869
From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 01-28-2009 01:50 PM      Profile for Mitchell Dvoskin   Email Mitchell Dvoskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
House Of Reps rejected the delay. Feb 17th still The End.

New Story Link

quote:

WASHINGTON - Bucking the Obama administration, House Republicans on Wednesday defeated a bill to postpone the upcoming transition from analog to digital television broadcasting to June 12 — leaving the current Feb. 17 deadline intact for now.

The 258-168 vote failed to clear the two-thirds threshold needed for passage. It's a victory for the GOP members, who warn that postponing the transition would confuse consumers.

The House Republicans say a delay also would burden wireless companies and public safety agencies waiting for the spectrum that will be vacated by the switchover, and create added costs for television stations that would have to continue broadcasting both analog and digital signals for four more months.

The defeat is a setback for the administration of President Barack Obama and Democrats on Capitol Hill, who fear too many Americans won't be ready for next month's analog shut-off. The Nielsen Co. estimates more than 6.5 million U.S. households that rely on analog television sets to pick up over-the-air broadcast signals still are not prepared for the transition. People who subscribe to cable or satellite TV or have a newer TV with a digital tuner will not be affected.

"In my opinion, we could do nothing worse than to delay this transition date," said Joe Barton of Texas, the top Republican on the House Commerce Committee. "The bill is a solution looking for a problem that exists mostly in the mind of the Obama administration."

Barton led the push to scuttle the bill, which passed the Senate unanimously on Monday night.

The Obama administration had no immediate comment on the House vote.

Congress in 2005 required broadcasters to switch from analog to digital signals, which are more efficient, to free up valuable chunks of wireless spectrum to be used for commercial services and interoperable emergency-response networks.

But the Obama administration called for the transition date to be postponed after the Commerce Department earlier this month hit a $1.34 billion funding limit for coupons to subsidize digital TV converter boxes for consumers. The coupon program allows consumers to request up to two $40 vouchers per household to help pay for the boxes, which translate digital signals back into analog ones for older TVs. The boxes generally cost between $40 and $80 each and can be purchased without a coupon.

The National Telecommunications and Information Administration, the arm of the Commerce Department administering the program, is now sending out new coupons only as older, unredeemed ones reach a 90-day expiration date and free up more money. The NTIA had nearly 2.6 million coupon requests on a waiting list last week and those people will not receive their coupons before Feb. 17.


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-28-2009 02:07 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 01-28-2009 02:30 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Word is the Republicans in the US Senate blocked one DTV delay measure in the beginning of January. It took three weeks to get a compromise drafted and enough Senate Republicans on board.

Now they get to go back to square one...with only 20 days left and counting before the Feb. 17 deadline.

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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 01-29-2009 07:49 AM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Assuming Feb 17 is the day, are all the stations going to go off the air at exactly the same time- and if so what time will that be- right at midnight, even if it's in the middle of something? Will they have anything special to commemorate the event? I've been checking the analog stations during the past few weeks and they're not exactly letting them go out with a bit of class, but I want to watch the very last night of analog programming if I can. Might not be able to because of my job schedule though.

I'd still rather go back to black & white lo-def with no on-screen crap, good shows and less than 10 minutes of commercials per hour than what passes for TV now in HD.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-29-2009 08:06 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
House defeats bill to delay digital TV transition
Republicans succeeded in scuttling bill to delay analog to digital switch
updated 6:11 p.m. MT, Wed., Jan. 28, 2009
WASHINGTON - Bucking the Obama administration, House Republicans on Wednesday defeated a bill to postpone the upcoming transition from analog to digital television broadcasting to June 12 — leaving an estimated 6.5 million U.S. households unprepared for the currently scheduled Feb. 17 switchover.

But the battle over a delay may not be over, with some predicting the House will take up the measure again next week.

Wednesday's 258-168 House vote failed to clear the two-thirds threshold needed for passage in a victory for GOP members, who warn that postponing the transition by four months would confuse consumers.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-29-2009 09:50 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
House Republicans on Wednesday defeated a bill to postpone the upcoming transition from analog to digital television broadcasting to June 12 — leaving an estimated 6.5 million U.S. households unprepared
That's quite the wording in that article. Blaming the politicians for leaving the households unprepared. [Roll Eyes]

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 01-29-2009 09:53 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, unfortunately the bill itself wasn't really killed. The House just couldn't vote to suspend normal rules so the thing could be fast tracked. That requires a 2/3 super-majority of the House.

The DTV Delay bill can be brought back to the House floor some time next week under the normal rules which would only require a simple majority to pass. However, the length of debate could go on longer and various amendments/riders could be attached. Even if passed, the bill could be complicated enough that it would have to be reconciled with the Senate's version. That would use up even more time.

There is a good possibility if Congress manages to pass the DTV Delay bill it wouldn't wind up in front of the President for signing until after the Feb. 17 deadline.

Right now we have 19 days until the current deadline. When/if the House sees this bill again there will be less than 2 weeks left before deadline. It's a good bet the bill would get lots of little attachments requiring it to go back into committees for reconciliation. That will clog it up for at least a couple days provided Congress didn't have anything else better to do.

And that gets to the real problem: Congress is loaded down with lots of other bills to examine and discuss. The economic stimulus package seems certain to encounter filibuster trouble in the Senate. Then there's that whole "first 100 days" thing. I think Congress just doesn't have nearly enough time to revisit this DTV delay issue since they have more important fish to fry.

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Jim Cassedy
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From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted 01-29-2009 09:58 AM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My busy schedule doesn't give me time to watch much TV.

When my cable line came down during a big winter storm several years ago, I never called to have it repaired.

>ONE OF THE BEST DECISIONS I EVER MADE!<

But I've been fighting since day one to to try and get one of those digital converter box coupons.

I applied for one online a few days after it became possible to do so.

My request was immediately rejected.

The reason given was that I'd already applied for and received my limit of two coupons.

HUH? I'm the only one living at this address. Nobody else with the same name or address could have applied.

There was an appeals process. I went through this twice and was rejected both times for the same reason.

Every time I tried calling the well advertised DTV question line 800 number, I got someone who did not understand English well enough to comprehend my problem. Their only suggestion [ obviously following the script they were given] was that I should subscribe to cable or satellite.

I also personally know two people who GOT their DTV converter box coupons only to be told they were "not valid" when they went to use them. The store clerks told them that computer system that verifies the discount card numbers "did not recognize the card numbers" and that they'd have to pay full price. Their efforts to resolve the problem online or by phone were fruitless.

The web is full of similar stories.

If the goverment can't even manage a simple FREE coupon give-away program without royally f-ing it up, it frightens me to think of what will happen if they ever get their hands on the health care system like they want to.

I've given up on getting the converter box coupon.
Mabye I'll give up watching TV all together.

That may be the 2nd best decision I'll ever make.

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