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Author Topic: More d-cinema morons Bevan Wright Expert Film Handler Posts: 176 From: Fountain Valley, CA, USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 02-24-2004 10:33 PM                        Intel can certainly make the silicon, I hope they can make a display device... many have tried with LCOS. I don't think Intel plans on going after the high brighness markets (like cinema) with their chips, they are mainly focusing on TVs and other small flat panel displays (consumer). Completely different story when you have to make a chip also withstand 4-6kW lamps. The smaller the chip the lower its light output efficiency due to etendu.  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 02-24-2004 11:18 PM                  Bevan, I'm saying that figuratively and in generalities. While I agree DLP technology has made great progress in the last 10 years, there has not been anything "spectacular" of late to knock my socks off. I agree the 2k chips are a big improvement over the 1.3K ones, but I still think in the long run Mr. Joe Blow Theatre Guy really doesn't care. In *my* opinion, the "my-chip-is-bigger-than-yours" argument is ONLY significant to us film guys and the video techno-nerds. I think if the debate/argument over who will pay for having "TV" in the theatres were to go away, the "industry" would think that the current performance/resolution of DLP would suffice. For some reason, the general public seems to accept a mediocre picture, but will NOT compromise audio performance. Bobby, I guess I took you to mean panels and not chips... >>> Phil  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 02-24-2004 11:45 PM                        Intel is absolutely in love with the consumer market. Like Bevan, I seriously doubt they'll pursue industrial applications like cinema projectors. Besides, Intel is so (rightly so) distracted with (all of) their chip's power dissipation problems that projection / display chips are just a side project to keep anyone not bright enough to deal with the power dissipation issues busy.  |  IP: Logged Mattias Ohlson Expert Film Handler Posts: 180 From: Falun, Sweden Registered: Mar 2003 posted 02-25-2004 02:47 AM                     TI might have a trick left in their back pocket. The recent demonstration of a 1080p resolution dmd might show what is to come in the future. There is speculation in another forum that they achieve a higher resolution than the mirror count by moving the chips between more than two positions. Only future will tell if there is any substance to this.  |  IP: Logged Bevan Wright Expert Film Handler Posts: 176 From: Fountain Valley, CA, USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 02-25-2004 07:17 AM                        "not been anything 'spectacular'" - let's see .... they move 2 million mirrors back and forth 12 degrees at 50,000 times a second while being bombarded with 6kW of xenon light. Tough crowd here.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-25-2004 07:55 AM                        From a technological point of view, DLP _is_ an impressive feat. There are many applications for high-quality large-screen video projection devices, and DLP is the appropriate technology for most of them. The problem is that current DLP systems (no, I haven't seen the 2k model) just don't look as good as 35mm film, and people here recognize that. I have no doubt that DLP (or some other technolgoy like it) will someday (probably within my lifetime) have the ability to look far better than 5/70 does at the present time. I can only hope that this will happen and the technology will be used to its full potential, and not watered down by lossy compression or low resolution chips used instead because they are "good enough." I think that we are all in favor of technological improvements when there is actually an _improvement_ over existing methods, as opposed to a way to perform similar tasks in a cheaper and lower-quality manner.  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 02-25-2004 08:40 AM                  IF you're going to quote me, please do not selectively choose only part of what I said to change my meaning. You failed to include the important words of "of late." quote: ...I agree DLP technology has made great progress in the last 10 years, there has not been anything "spectacular" of late... >>> Phil  |  IP: Logged Paul Cassidy Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 549 From: Auckland, New Zealand Registered: Aug 2001 posted 02-25-2004 08:51 AM                        Forget LCD and DLP ,D-ILA is the NEW baby in Town set to replace the CRT in Home Theatres , or so says Jerry Bruckheimer ,quote "When I watch the combination of D-ILA and D-VHS in my screening room , the clarity and color of the image are almost as good as the original film, and better than what I often see in theaters .I am thrilled to have the JVC system at work and at home" http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/pro/dila/feature.html  |  IP: Logged Mattias Ohlson Expert Film Handler Posts: 180 From: Falun, Sweden Registered: Mar 2003 posted 02-25-2004 09:12 AM                     Paul I am also waiting for JVC and dila to enter the d-cinema scene. Their 4kx2k product should not be far off, the prototype has existed for a long time. JVC has also done testing with illuminating dila panels with lasers. If we are lucky we could get 4k laser illuminated dila projectors for d-cinema. Not that xenon bulbs are to shabby , but lasers are way cooler. It is often quoted that rgb lasers could provide twice the color gamut of lamp based light sources.  |  IP: Logged Bevan Wright Expert Film Handler Posts: 176 From: Fountain Valley, CA, USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 02-25-2004 01:39 PM                        2k (2 million pixels) and 12 degree tilt are developments 'of late'.  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 02-25-2004 02:06 PM                     D-ILA like LCD require polarization of the light source with light loss issues versus DLP. The use of laser illumination for D-ILA / LCOS would probable take care of the polarization issue. LCD aging is another factor where overhaul /replacement of 1000's of recently installed advertising projectors ( some of which are price sensitive, hard to repair "disposable" models ) may prove to be expensive if ad rates are too low...there are some quality LCD units but you pay for the difference. I like the "filmic" look of D-ILA but my partner likes the high contrast of DLP; he enjoys a movie like movie goer while I nitpick like the projectsexual I am  |  IP: Logged Mattias Ohlson Expert Film Handler Posts: 180 From: Falun, Sweden Registered: Mar 2003 posted 02-25-2004 04:18 PM                     Dlp digital cinema will likely have a contrast advantage with todays best products at 2000:1+, but I expect d-ila for d-cinema application to reach about 1500:1 which is entirely acceptable. Few theaters are prefect for projection cr wise. Projected film usuallly measures 1000-2000:1 on screen with the higher number being unusual.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 02-25-2004 06:02 PM                     I agree TI's micromirror technology is an impressive feat. But it is also a technology plagued with production problems and limits on advancement and cost reduction. All of those spinning mirrors are pretty fragile. With all those many thousands of moving parts the DLP units can wear out, yielding dead pixels showing black or a 100% bright color. The limits on miniaturization alone put the DLP technology in jeopardy for the long run. Because of the production required for those spinning on-chip mirrors, there's only so many chips you'll be able to fit on a wafer of silicon. You're effectively stuck at a high cost. And the only way to lower cost is lower the resolution, which is largely the case when it comes to DLP chips being used in computer and consumer electronics devices. Other competitors like JVC and Intel will very likely take over the consumer electronics industry with their products and leapfrog over TI. Texas Instruments needs the much much larger consumer electronics market to fuel any further R&D developments for DLP. They're not going to be able to fund DLP on what they make off commercial cinema installations alone. I just don't see how DLP can make it for the long haul unless TI can somehow can accomplish a true 1080 HD rez DLP chip for the consumer market at an affordable rate.  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 02-25-2004 08:37 PM                  Bobby, DLP MTBF is like 10 years or something, so it's pretty reliable. BUT! D-ILA with their 1000:1 contrast ratio and the 3K+ HD chip (that DOES knock my socks off) is a much better thing than ANY 2k chip and hi tilt angle of the DLP's. Problem is, the D-ILA people are not willing to commit to a MTBF! >>> Phil (Corrected typo) [ 02-26-2004, 03:28 AM: Message edited by: Phil Hill ]  |  IP: Logged Mattias Ohlson Expert Film Handler Posts: 180 From: Falun, Sweden Registered: Mar 2003 posted 02-26-2004 03:14 AM                     Bobby H. Do you know that dlp mirrors can not be made smaller? Do you know that TI has presented a 1080p consumer level chip. However as I mentioned there is speculation that there are fewer mirrors than pixels of resolution. If the xhd3 has 1920x1080 mirrors at 0.9 inches smaller mirrors are indeed possible. Who really knows how small these mirrors can be made. Phil There is a whitepaper at JVC studying the reliability of dila. I suggest you take a look at it. They seem to be confident about the reliability of the technology. The last hurdle we are waiting for proof of is a high lumen dila projector. I do not count anything below 10000 ANSI lumens.  |  IP: Logged

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