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Author Topic: More d-cinema morons
Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 04-22-2004 01:10 PM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I will tell you of the latest development with dlp.
I guess that some of you are in the know but anyway here we go.
In the next product generation they shift the square mirrors by 45 degress creating a diamond like pattern. From a pixel grid of 960x1080 a full HD picture can be shown although softened. A half pixel shift of 960x1080 back and forth creates the 1920x1080 image. This might make the pixel grid essentially invisible.
In the future we can imagine chips with 2048x2160 to create an image that is 4096x2160.

You can follow the discussion here
dlp future

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
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 - posted 04-22-2004 03:22 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The AVS Forum is mostly for consumer display systems, correct?

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Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 04-22-2004 03:41 PM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That is correct but I have found that some people coexist on both boards. I have been given hints that a traditional old dmd style 4k dlp projector is not feasable. This type of trick makes 4k within range. The mirror count I suggested fits perfectly with suggested digital standard at 4k. I think what is most difficult for TI is to load the data to the chip fast enough. Fabrication chip with mirror counts over two million also seems very difficult. The four million chip might be in range but beyond that is likely to be very difficult.

What is attractive with this technology is that it should render the pixels invisible. Then there are other things related to pwm that is likely to hang around even with the new chips.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
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 - posted 05-17-2004 05:18 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here we go again... [Mad]

quote:
British film chiefs are aiming to revolutionise the country's cinemas by installing 250 hi-tech digital projectors with £13m of lottery money.

The move will make it easier for film- lovers to see arthouse films because distribution costs will be slashed, the UK Film Council has said.

Digital projectors do not require reels of film, can receive films by satellite and provide higher-quality screenings. The new network will double the world's total of digital screens.

In March, there were 190 digital projectors around the world - with fewer than a dozen in the UK. The 250 new projectors will be installed in about 150 cinemas across the UK by the end of 2004, the UK Film Council has said.

Currently, arthouse and specialist films usually get issued with between 20-70 prints, which cost £1,000 a time. Cinemas with digital projectors will have to dedicate a portion of their screening time to niche films to ensure there is more choice for their customers.

"Unless they live in a small number of major cities, cinema-goers in the UK often have an extremely limited choice of films available to them," UK Film Council chief executive John Woodward said. "The aim of the network is to use state-of-the-art technology to cut the cost of distributing films." It would provide a "cost-effective way of making a broader range of films available to the public", he added.

Link.

If you have the time, please e-mail their 'feedback' page and tell them what a pile of badly researched poo this is!

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Steve Kraus
Film God

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From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 05-17-2004 07:14 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
BTW, is the DLP DMD chip the first widespread application of micromachines (considering each mirror unit separately)?

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Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 05-19-2004 05:38 AM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
More official news of 4k from Sony.
babelfish translation from a Sony web page

Press release table of contents
Reporting data

The information which is published here is information as of of announcement day. Because there is a search day and a possibility information differing, please acknowledge beforehand. The SONY marketing (Inc.) please view"SonyDrive" in regardto the commodity which presently is sold.
The SONY marketing (Inc.) the public information announcement sentence of announcement (please read)thistable of contents such as the SONY product.
Actualizing 4 time thing Kousei detail of full HDTV
Developing super Kousei small liquid crystal display panel "4 K SXRD"
- In projector for digital cinema development -

As for the SONY corporation, 885 ten thousand pixels which exceed full HDTV (4096H×2160V) resolution, 4000: The liquid crystal display device ' 4 K for the super Kousei small projector which SXRD actualizes the highcontrast of 1 (Silicon X-tal Reflective Display)* 1'it developed.
This corporation last year full HDTV (1920H the ×1080V 200 ten thousand pixels) succeeds in the development of liquid crystal display device, "2K SXRD" is on-board onto the first full HDTV front projector "QUALIA 004" for home already. This time it developed' 4K SXRD ', resolution of the 4 times (as a projector the worldwide highest) with furthermore to actualize high contrast, the smoothness like the silk, it makes the black reappearance which tightens possible, Takasina rank it is possible to create image.
At the time of loading to the projector, RGB of the basic 3 primary color which forms image (every red green blue color) this device is used, the super Kousei small display whose image expression of 2655 ten thousand pixels is possible actualizes.
This corporation introduces this super Kousei small liquid crystal device, to the movie industry where the movement of digitalization accelerates, directing to merchandising during 2004 the cinema and in addition as a projector of large picture use, we examine.
Furthermore, "2K SXRD" of previous development, you insert also development to the rear projection television for home which enjoys the contents of the high picture quality which accelerate more and more & the high resolution which in the large picture in range of vision and start advancing.
< Background of development >
The movie shows the movement which moves to the direction of the digital cinema which utilizes digital technology from the former system which uses the film. As for the digital cinema, in the system which uses the former film in "the production" "transmission" of the movie "screening", soft operation and the high picture quality which could not be thought become possible. SONY merchandises, the movie production system "CineAlta by digital video (シネアルタ)" depends on worldwide first digital video in 1999 June the appraisal where "star wars episode 2", is photographed & is produced by the SONY system, is high is received.
On the one hand, the projector of the high quality where it is not inferior to the film in "screening", is required. This device actualizes worldwide highest resolution at mass production level as a projector, digital cinema initiative (DCI) it is propulsion specification as a worldwide standard of the projector for the digital cinema, "4 K (4096H×2160V)" it becomes the new display device which is filled up.
1 4K (4096H×2160V): It consists the member of the Hollywood movie studio "digital cinema initiative (DCI)" the specification which has promoted.
SXRD: (Silicon X-tal Reflective Display). As for X-tal the meaning of Crystal.
In 2003 February at diagonal 0.78 inch 200 ten thousand pixels (the pixel of 9 オ m pitches it succeeds in development with space 0.35 オ m between the worldwide smallest pixel arrangement) as a liquid crystal display device.
- The main merit "of 4 K SXRD"
1. At until recently high resolution of full HDTV ratio 4 time, high brightness, actualizing Takasina rank image high contrast ratio
Super high resolution: 885 ten thousand pixels (4K: 4096H×2160V)
As for actualization of high resolution conversion, until recently the pixel pitch which is 9 オ m, as for the pixel between space while they were former 0.35 オ m it reduced in 8.5 オ m with the optimization of the drive circuit design inside the pixel, 10% made the pixel area decrease. It became possible because of this to accumulate 885 ten thousand thing pixels within 1.55 inch diagonal sizes. Furthermore, precision it does the drive of 885 ten thousand thing pixels which are 4 times that or more the full HDTV which is assumed that it is difficult until recently, on the silicon substrate, starts making smooth image well "design technology of the drive element" and "individual signal entry technology" were established. Because of this, the fixed pixel peculiar mesh impression is not made to feel even at the screen size which exceeds 300 inches, super Kousei detail and Takasina rank image is actualized.
< High brightness: Former ratio 4 time >
Brightness of the projector if the illumination light intensity of the lamp is the same, is proportionate to the size of the panel in general. It reached the point where it can actualize high brightness due to the fact that the result and the illumination area which this time enlarge panel size than former 0.78 inches in 1.55 inches reach approximately 4 times. Furthermore, it improved reflectance ratio of light to 72% where it is higher than panel 65% until recently.
With these, regarding the projector which high brightness for the cinema is required, it became possible sufficiently to offer practical brightness.
< High contrast: 4000:1 >
High contrast being able to actualize SXRD, is the vertical orientation liquid crystal material of the SONY individual specification, with the adoption of liquid crystal orientation control technology of thin liquid crystal cell thick device structure and inorganic material. Furthermore the high durability where this time, already it is obtained by the optimization of membrane technology of the orientation membrane, was not impaired, device contrast 4000:1 was actualized. (Until recently "2 K SXRD" 3000:1)
2. Actualization of high quality and potential for mass production
Guaranty the quality potential for mass production which develops wafer unit panel conversion process < regarding the large-sized panel, is high >
Generally, after dividing the silicon drive baseplate and the counter electrode baseplate into the individual panel, doing to make compete, it uses the production process which assembles the liquid crystal cell, but with SONY SXRD, after making the silicon wafer of 8 inches compete with bundle dividing, the to panel it actualizes the process which is converted.
Furthermore this time, regarding big size panel size 1.55 inches as the projection device, the cell interval whose 2 microns or less quite is narrow until recently in the same way, without using the spacer,*the wafer unit panel conversion process technology which can be produced uniformly inside 2 panel surfaces was established. Because of this, during panel conversion processing be able to lighten the penetration of the dust which becomes problem very substantially, high potential for mass production is guaranteed. Simultaneously, completely there is no picture noise by the dust and the spacer, in addition in inside the panel surface very, quite high picture quality of uniform brightness it reached the point where image can be obtained.
* 2 Generally, because cell interval is maintained the glass beads spacer and the post spacer are used inside the liquid crystal cell.

What do we make of this? It is time for JVC to show their cards now. I am waiting for an lcos product to demonstrate something that is 15000-20000 ANSI lumen. Xenon light is ok to start with and then I expect rgb lasers to be used when that is possible.
-

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
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 - posted 05-19-2004 06:10 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interestingly, this week, the Digital Cinema Initiatives (DCI) group is showing 4K screenings at the USC Entertainment Technology Center (ETC) in Hollywood, using a PAIR of 2K DLP Cinema projectors to "simulate" 4K. JVC has demonstrated 4K D-ILA technology already.

Why do you think laser illumination will be favored over xenon lamps?

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Stephen Furley
Film God

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From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
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 - posted 05-19-2004 06:59 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I seem to remember there being some sort of laser projection system at Expo 70, in Japan. I wasn't there, but I remember reading about it at the time. I seem to remember that one of the problems at the time was the short life of suitable lasers. How far things have progressed in the last tird of a century, I don't know.

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Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 05-19-2004 07:05 AM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mr Pytlak
I know now that d-ila prototypes have been around a long time but it is time for JVC and SONY to show products now. Digital cinema is starting to happen 10 times more now than ever before. This not saying it is a transition just that the market is starting to become a real market. I wonder how much head start JVC and SONY can afford to give to TI.

Why am a constantly dragging lasers into this thread?
color gamut perhaps
reliability?
long life, less changing of parts?
lcos is more efficient using laser light than xenon light. That is why JVC themselves are talking about lasers in their white papers when they talk about digital cinema / e-cinama.
better focus
better inter pixel cr levels

[ 05-19-2004, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: Mattias Ohlson ]

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Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 05-22-2004 01:07 PM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
More exciting news that you can read about at avsforum. Sony is going to present glv projection next year on a screen 50m by 10m at a world expo. This sounds more like a technology demonstration to me considering the aspect ratio. It does not sound like laser projection using glv as imaging devices is imminent in a cinema near you.

The 4k sxrd projector also from Sony seems to be a go for Infocom in June. It seems like it is aimed at cinema and events.

The TI simulation of 4k(about 8 megapixels) sounds like a difficult task using two 2048x1080 dlp projectors. They are short of mirrors just as with the scenario I talked about. They probably can not yet produce 2048x2160 dmds or feed a single chip fast enough.

If any of you will get to see the event any reviews are appreciated.

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 05-22-2004 01:42 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Throughout the '80's, Billy Graham of Media Solutions here (not the evangelical minister) experimented with and fielded laser projection systems designed for extremely large images (on the sides of buildings and such), well beyond what the biggest Eidophors of the day could handle. One of the problems at the time was lack of output in the red channel. Red required augmentation by projecting the red laser through a specially shaped fan of red dye. This was extremely difficult and finicky to set up, requiring numerous trial and error sessions to get the right combination of dye nozzle shape and Brewster Angle orientation. Three-phase power and water cooling requirements were also major. But when it worked the system produced spectacularly bright video images.

I've been out of the laser game for a long time so I don't know what progress has been made in large lasers since then. I imagine the red output problem has been largely licked.

[ 05-23-2004, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: Paul Mayer ]

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Steve Kraus
Film God

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From: Chicago, IL, USA
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 - posted 05-22-2004 06:03 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How odd...you'd think red would be the easiest.

Just imagine Billy Graham's projector playing the output of Bing Crosby's videotape recorder.

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Peter Castle
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 220
From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia
Registered: Oct 2003


 - posted 05-23-2004 07:42 AM      Profile for Peter Castle   Email Peter Castle   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here in Australia we've seen only a few demonstration sessions of digital projection. Here's what Hoyts say about their coming showings of "The Day After Tomorrow":
Exclusive to Hoyts Fox Studios, selected sessions of The Day After Tomorrow will be screening in digital projection. Delivered to the audience in a pure digital format, this is the highest quality cinema presentation available in the world.

Need I say more.

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Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 05-23-2004 02:43 PM      Profile for Michael Barry   Email Michael Barry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Of course, what else could we expect from HOYTS, a cinema company long known for its dedication to quality screen presentations the world over... [puke]

'Highest quality cinema presentation in the world?' - not even the best in the vicinity, let alone the world! (That would be 5 minutes down the road at the Randwick Ritz cinema. Now THAT'S more like 'highest quality cinema presentation in the world' than any 1K low-res digital crap! [Cool]

Actually, digital presentation at Fox Studios may look pretty good next to the non-filmguarded, underlit, soft-focus, jittery mess excuse-for-an-image that they fleece their customers to watch on a regular basis! [Eek!]

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Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 05-29-2004 09:11 AM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For small tidbits about Sony sxrd and large venue and cinama please read at
infocom
From the link
"Finally, Sony is taking advantage of InfoComm’s Large Venue Display Gallery to unveil a new digital projector for large-venue and cinema applications. The projector builds upon Silicon X-tal Reflective Display (SXRD) technology, which Sony views as a clear alternative for the professional market to liquid crystal display (LCD) or digital light processing (DLP) technologies. "This new technology will far exceed anything currently available for large-venue projection in terms of resolution and contrast," promises Tom Mykietyn, Director of Content Creation for Sony Electronics' Broadcast and Production Systems Division."

"The capabilities of Sony’s projector will be tested by Hollywood-produced movie clips and test frames and InfoComm-provided content. "Our main goal," Mykietyn said, "is to have people walk away from this demonstration saying, 'I have just seen the future of large-venue digital projection." "

It seems Sony has started a small counter attack against TI and dlp technology.

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