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Author Topic: More d-cinema morons
Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-30-2004 01:50 AM      Profile for Paul Konen   Email Paul Konen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mathias, that link seems to be referring to Large Venue rather than Cinema Grade projectors.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-30-2004 03:48 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Didn't Sony try this before? Oh yeah...that was SDDS...better than anything anyone else offered...then they pulled the plug on it. Do you think exhibitors will forget that Sony pulled out on them once already?

They might as well just keep to the A/V market for their projectors.

Steve

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Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 05-30-2004 04:19 AM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul
In this link below you will see that they talk about digital cinema projectors. Dlp is used both for large venue and cinema.
digital cinema too

Steve
Sony will naturally pay the price for not supporting sdds. From my outside perspective sound formats is more difficult to establish since there are so many. The competition will lead to that not enought theaters convert to sdds and it is not good business.

I do not think that a Sony digital cinema projector is more of a risk than one from another manufacturer. However the technology needs some time in operation to become trusted. That is natural for any new product.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-30-2004 09:04 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No exhibitor or circuit will be willing to make a large scale investment in a one source technology especially if that investment can not be fully recovered in a reasonable time frame before becoming prematurally obselete

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 05-30-2004 10:50 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Leo quoted, from the BBC news site:

quote: Leo Enticknap
British film chiefs are aiming to revolutionise the country's cinemas by installing 250 hi-tech digital projectors with £13m of lottery money.
The move will make it easier for film- lovers to see arthouse films because distribution costs will be slashed, the UK Film Council has said.
Digital projectors do not require reels of film, can receive films by satellite and provide higher-quality screenings. The new network will double the world's total of digital screens.
In March, there were 190 digital projectors around the world - with fewer than a dozen in the UK. The 250 new projectors will be installed in about 150 cinemas across the UK by the end of 2004, the UK Film Council has said.

So, they're going to spend £13m to equip just 150 cinemas to run non-existant digital transfers of art-house films. How much more will it cost to make such digital transfers of these films so that the equipment can actually be used. From what I can make out, even at the handful of British cinemas which already have the equipment installed it is little used, and they run film most of the time.

How many films could have a few good 35mm prints struck for £13m? Prints which could be run in just about any cinema in the world.

There was an event at the NFT last year trying out a similar idea for classic films, again, lots of money would be needed to make a digital transfer for just a small number of copies. Where this digital thing might give a saving in distribution costs is in mainstream film, where a large number of copies are required, but then you would have to spend a fortune to equip a large number of theatres.

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John Pytlak
Film God

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From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
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 - posted 06-01-2004 02:02 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At ShoWest a few years ago, the Kodak presentation noted that it cost about $350 per week to supply a new 35mm release print to a theatre for the typical 4-8 week first run. What kind of digital projection system can you finance and maintain for less than $350 per week? How much will it cost to "deliver" the digital print? In simple terms, that's the business case that must be justified.

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Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 06-01-2004 02:51 PM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mr Pytlak
According to the NY Times Kodak is entering the digital cinema market in 2005 or 2006 with a 4k projector. I think it is wise of Sony and Kodak to let the technology mature and enter at 4k.

How would the cost situation play out for digital projectors if 1000s instead of 10-100 were installed in a year. Yes, why invest any money if you can not justify the cost with improved earnings as a result.

Perhaps the studios ought to buy the theaters and control the whole chain. They could sell subliminal mind control content, how is that for a business idea? [Smile]

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John Pytlak
Film God

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From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
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 - posted 06-01-2004 03:12 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The cost to finance and maintain the system is a key part of any business case. The DCI technical specifications are certainly looking beyond 2K.

http://www.dcimovies.com/

quote:
Digital Cinema Initiatives, LLC (DCI) was created in March 2002, as a joint venture of Disney, Fox, MGM, Paramount, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Universal and Warner Bros. Studios. DCI's primary purpose is to establish and document voluntary specifications for an open architecture for digital cinema that ensures a uniform and high level of technical performance, reliability and quality control. DCI will also facilitate the development of business plans and strategies to help spur deployment of digital cinema systems in movie theaters.

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Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
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 - posted 06-01-2004 05:21 PM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I do not get why TI is pretending not to go beyond 2k when everyone else is shooting for 4k. Would they lose sales if they said 4k is coming but not tomorrow?

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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Mobile, AL USA
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 - posted 06-02-2004 02:28 AM      Profile for William Hooper   Author's Homepage   Email William Hooper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mattias Ohlson
Perhaps the studios ought to buy the theaters and control the whole chain.
The Hollywood Anti-Trust Case

FTC vs. Famous Players - Lasky et. al.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-02-2004 06:43 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Everytime TI comes out with a new version of their DLP process, it is something on the order of $100 million in R&D. Just how many sales would they need to recoup that? The pro industry it would be next to forever.

In the home, this certainly doable and the 1080 x 1920 (or 2040) satisfies the home market, where the real money is at the moment.

Winning DCinema is not that much of a trophy that it is worth the huge losses that all players are receiving. The consumer market has always been the pot of gold.

Steve

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Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 06-03-2004 07:02 AM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sony demonstrates 4k sxrd at ETC today. According to the Hollywood Reporter it will be a prototype capable of 10000 ANSI lumens. If anyone here is attending it will be nice to hear of your impressions. It would also be interesting to learn what Sony says about 20k+ lumens in a future real production large screen version of this product.

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Mike Olpin
Chop Chop!

Posts: 1852
From: Dallas, TX
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 - posted 06-04-2004 05:22 AM      Profile for Mike Olpin   Email Mike Olpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Da Link: Sony Projector May Speed Launch of Digital Cinemas

Da News:
quote:

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Sony Electronics plans to unveil on Thursday a new digital projection system for movie theaters, using a microchip it says will advance the industry and rival Texas Instruments Inc's market-leading product.

The move by Sony, a unit of Japan's Sony Corp, comes as the industry appears headed for breakthroughs in establishing technology standards and business models for digital projection systems that can cost $100,000 or more. A few years ago they cost as much as $150,000.

"It seems like everything is coming together at about the right time," said Tom Mykietyn, director of content creation for Sony Electronics.

Digital projection, also called digital cinema, promises better picture quality for audiences, especially with digitally-made movies like current smash hit "Shrek 2."

For Hollywood studios, the systems could also save millions of dollars in annual costs for duplicating and shipping movies because film would be replaced by digital files sent via satellite, the Internet or on DVD-like disks.

But since the start of digital cinema in the late 1990s, industry players have bickered over technology standards and who would pay the bill: theater owners or studios.

Sony, which owns its own Hollywood studio, had looked at designing digital cinema systems early, but backed off until about two years ago, after major studios published initial equipment standards, said Andrew Stucker, general manager of digital production systems for Sony.

Final standards should be unveiled this fall along with formal business plans, the head of the studios' Digital Cinema Initiative (DCI) said in March.

"I think (a rollout) is closer than people realize," said Texas Instruments' Doug Darrow. "It's conceivable there could be a significant deployment starting late this year, and by that I mean hundreds of systems scaling to thousands over time."

Currently, there are 95 digital cinema systems in North America and 220 worldwide using the Texas Instruments (TI) "DLP Cinema" technology, Darrow said.

Sony wants to change that. In Hollywood on Thursday, it would unveil a prototype of a system it has been so busy preparing it has not even had time to name it, said Stucker.

The new system is designed around Sony's SXRD microchip and promises picture resolution and contrast ratios at a specification known as "4K."

Mykietyn said Sony has leapfrogged TI's "2K" technology, and Sony's system gives filmmakers greater picture resolution and contrast. Stucker said the system meets DCI standards.

Darrow counters that a picture produced by a DLP Cinema system is already far better than film, and that DLP Cinema has proven it is "reliable, robust and secure" in real deployments.

Reliability, he said, was a key factor in reducing total system expenses because it decreased the chance of breakdowns.

Stucker said Sony could be in production in about six months, and the cost would be extremely competitive with the roughly $100,000 for current digital cinema systems.

On the other hand, current DCI standards call for "2K" systems that easily migrate to "4K" technology, and the DLP Cinema systems are designed to do that.

With Texas Instruments planning its own digital cinema presentation in Los Angeles on Friday, observers said the growing competition showed that the market had arrived.

"It's a positive sign that the digital cinema market for products and services is continuing to develop and advance," said DCI chief Chuck Goldwater.


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Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 06-04-2004 09:34 AM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
5000 ANSI lumen, 60k$
10000 ANSI lumen, 80k$
20000? ANSI lumen 2005, $?

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/4864

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-04-2004 09:41 AM      Profile for Paul Konen   Email Paul Konen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Doing a search on Sony SXRD yields only a 2K chip?

How are they able to claim 4K? Are they switching each pixel to both sides?

Paul

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