Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » More d-cinema morons (Page 15)

 
This topic comprises 18 pages: 1  2  3  ...  12  13  14  15  16  17  18 
 
Author Topic: More d-cinema morons
Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 06-12-2004 11:22 AM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I saw the Sony 4K projector in Atlanta at the Infocomm convention. They had both prototypes that where used in Los Angeles last week. The image was truely impressive. They where demoing on a split screen set up with 2k to the left and 4K to the right. 90% of the time 2K was more than adequate for the subject matter...the obvious would be pixelation of static charts such as a blow up of a city map. I viewed the 32 foot (10 meter) wide image at a 10 foot (3 meter) distance for evaluation. Sony is planning to start selling these units in January 2005. Barco, JVC, NEC, Christie where also displaying similar sized images ( SXGA+ HDTV, 2K )in side by side rooms which allowed for quick judgement of quality. On the trade show floor several vendors showed 1920 or 2K machines in response to Sony.JVC will have a 2K machine for home cinema and screening room use in a few weeks. Barco displayed a new 5000 lumen 2K projector which will be available in November with a $45,000.00 list price. The next few months will be interesting with enough options from 6 - 8 manufacturers to be very competitive...SXGA+ / 1920HDTV / 2K still, to me, look better than many USA release prints; the 4K appeared to be the quality I usually expect on film dailies projection.

 |  IP: Logged

Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 06-20-2004 07:22 AM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is there anyone here that knows more about Panavisionīs new digital camera?
Genesis

Dalsaīs new camera has 8M pixels r+g+b.
Is Genesis 12M pixel rgb? That is somewhat unclear.

Richard
Did they display 2k and 4k source material on a split screen basis with the same 4k projector. The Sony projectors can display 4 2k images at the same time. In that case you saw the difference in the source 2k vs 4k and not projector 2k vs 4k. Do I understand you correctly?
Also was the 2k projector at 345k$ a dlp or an lcd?

[ 06-21-2004, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: Mattias Ohlson ]

 |  IP: Logged

John Lasher
Master Film Handler

Posts: 493
From: Newark, DE
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 06-21-2004 03:28 PM      Profile for John Lasher   Author's Homepage   Email John Lasher   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A recurring theme in this whole thing has been "Mr. Average Joe doesn't care." I would like to raise the question that if the average moviegoing public does not care about things like picture quality and is only concerned with the "get out of the house" and "content not available elsewhere" factors, why have I never been to any sort of large format film presentation that wasn't sold out? It seems to me that the public is willing to pay a premium for something they perceive as "better", the studios know this too and have been using it it their marketing regarding D-cinema.

Just a thought...

 |  IP: Logged

Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-23-2004 04:00 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John, 'tis the mediocre-ing down of America. We seem to accept more and more of what is less and less -- the least common denominator factor. With good marketing, the majority of average Americans have been led to actually believe that MacDonalds is edible food. US corporations strive not for what is best, but only to that which will rise to the threshold that is just below the point of mass dissatisfaction. If they don't complain about it, it's good enough.

Perhaps this is enevitable; perhaps the great masses will never demand the best, but instead what is convenient and what is comfortable. And that's ok, as long as those who can and do appreciate quality will still have the ability to experience it, even though they are a minority. Yes, the masses will revel in the "reality" shows where the highlight of the evening is people eating bugs; but that doesn't seem to prevent the much smaller, minority audiences from being able to find the quality programs of, say, PBS or the other quality programming that keeps rearing it's beautiful head.

Luckly there are still artists and creative people who will not settle and it seems that the original inferior quality of the first TI DLP units, while the quality they were capable of may not have caused the average Joe to go screaming from the theatre, evidently, luckily, the creative community demanded more and they seem to have prevailed. What is the cost of the new Sony's 4K units? Given the many manufactures that are compteting in this market, it would seem that the prices for the newest projection technology (which is able to rival film) might actually fall over time, which didn't seem to be the case with the $150,000 entry point of the first DLP units. If that happens, perhaps all the average Joes may actually wind up with a technology standard for cinema projection that will not be any different for them or even for the more discerning pubic minority (the ones with eyes) than what they have gotten previously with film technology.

Hmmm....maybe things aren't quite as bad as I used to think.

Richard, any prices yet on the new 4K Sony, Barco and others? Where do they fall in relation to the original TI DLP entry units?

What impact does that have on home units? What should I be waiting for to buy for a video home theatre unit that will not cause me to pull out what little left of my hair is left?

 |  IP: Logged

Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 06-23-2004 04:30 PM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
60k for 5k lumens
80k for 10k lumens
That is without lens
The projector for the biggest screen will be announced next year the former is said to come in January

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-23-2004 05:23 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The 2K projectors are in the same price range as the older 1K projectors. The 1K projectors have come down in price however. As to Sony...they have never been about being the cheapest in price...take SDDS...that was the most expensive system to own and to keep.

Why would any exhibitor purchase a Sony DCinema system when they showed such poor support for SDDS? The Sony 4K system at InfoComm apparantly only showed still images...more Sony tricks, if you ask me.

I suspect that no digital cinema equipment manufacturer has systems available or in the near future that are cost effective.

Steve

 |  IP: Logged

Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 06-25-2004 06:18 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Sony unit did also show motion clips. The static displays allowed you judge resolution. I wondered if they dragged these two prototypes to CineExpo in Amsterdam this week? NHK Network of Japan has announced that they are working on Ultra HDTV with 8K resolution which they say will display images that look as real as looking out of a window....maybe too real to allow you to enjoy the story or presentation as a viewer versus a voyeuristic participant [Wink]

 |  IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 06-25-2004 09:24 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There's always something better next year, and the year after that.

 |  IP: Logged

Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 06-25-2004 09:42 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just received the wrap-up edition of the NAB Daily News for this year's convention. There's a brief mention of some coming technology for cinema use, hinting at increased display resolutions:

TV Increases Digital Technology Use
By Andrew Morris
TV Technology

(Excerpted from the NAB Broadcast Engineering Conference, "State of the Art of Television 2004."

quote:
Joseph Flaherty of CBS discussed the application of high-definition technology to the world of public, large screen venues.

"Television is coming to the movies," Flaherty said. "High-definition television is all but behind us and large screen digital imaging or LSDI is an extended application of HDTV. Theater-sized HD screens are coming and the very nature of theaters will change with them."

Sounds to me like the guy is talking a bit out of his league here, but as always, we will see.

 |  IP: Logged

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 06-26-2004 01:13 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Frank Angel
John, 'tis the mediocre-ing down of America. We seem to accept more and more of what is less and less -- the least common denominator factor.
The suits on Wall Street love the living hell out of it. Give people less and make them pay more for it. Great way to expand that profit margin and make each share of stock earn a few pennies for that quarter. The American Medical Industrial Complex (from trial lawyers and insurance companies to hospital conglomerates and multinational drug companies) has been profiteering off this very thing for a long time, but doing so to a profane level lately. Give people less of a product and make them pay more for it. Some of this D-Cinema shit smacks of exactly the same thing. Lower quality standards to cut some print making costs and slap the "digital" word on it to fool the public.

A major part of this problem also comes down onto the dumbf**k cattle that make up much of the American general public. They think everything is the same so they just buy the cheapest version of it. Doing a competent job or offering a properly make product is now seen as a luxury when it should really be the damned starting point and nothing less. But the standard these days is doing as little as humanly possible to get by.

 |  IP: Logged

Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 06-26-2004 04:42 AM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The NHK system is only 8k r + g + b and not 8k rgb as far as I know. I think that the system uses 4 4k imagers, 2g, 1r and 1b.

Mr Pytlak

Perhaps there will be gems from Kodak next year or the year after that, I hope so.

Bobby H.

When are you happy with things? I hope there are such times. A well projected film should earn you more but unfortunately I guess it only does so marginally and location might be more important. Digital will eventually sell convenience and ease of use. That time is not now but perhaps in 5 years when standards have worked into real life. Using any kind of equipment will take skills to look good or its best.

I actually can not see the problem. If digital is cost ineffective and of lower quality why would anyone loving film fear that it could succeed? The only way that could happen is if studios stopped making prints and that is not going to happen.

 |  IP: Logged

Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-26-2004 05:50 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Paul Mayer
Theater-sized HD screens are coming and the very nature of theaters will change with them."
Put this gushing tripe right up there with,
quote:
"In the next 5 years, film will be a thing of the past....DIGITAL technology will replace film in the way a movie is recorded, transported and then played back in the theatres. No longer will motion picture film be used in to show the latest movie in a theatre near you. Deeeee-Cinema will be more revolutionary than the introduction of sound was to the silent film era."
Paraphrased from a CBS NewsRadio "report" circa 1998.

This was taken right off a TI press release (so much for balanced reporting). Seven years later, what are there?....less than 75 TI DLP installs, and a bunch of them not even real purchases but Technicolor's embarrassing debacle of their 1000 video projector seeding program. Hell, they couldn't even GIVE the damn things away.

quote: Richard Fowler
NHK Network of Japan has announced that they are working on Ultra HDTV with 8K resolution
And won't this make the exhibitors who actually do invest in those 2K and 4K projectors, extrodinarily happy. They are looking at obsolete equipment before it's even out of the box.

As for that revolution transition from silent to sound. I sat through a demonstration of hand cranked projectors one afternoon at the Museum of the Moving Image in Queens, NY. And yes, it was wild to see all those antiques, most of them actual, working projectors. But what was even more impressive was one demo that was made with a few minutes of original footage from 1912 spliced to a JURASSIC PARK trailer. Aside from the beauty of seeing that piece of machinery from antiquity actually being able to run film and project it quite impressively on a modern theatre screen, what was really astonishing and enlightening at the same time to me, was that at the splice, a piece of film that was manufactured nearly a century ago was joined to one made practically yesterday and they both went through that projector as smoothly and without so much as a hiccup as if they were two reels from the same film spliced together. Now THAT'S backward compatibility! And it is a BIG factor in the success or failure of any technology. Just because the R&D guys can create a technology doesn't mean it will replace the existing technology simply because it can. Just ask the guys who invented 3D, and Cinerama, and Perspeca Sound, and VistaVision, and Fantasound, and Todd-AO, and 35mm 4 track mag, and TECHNICOLOR! and Kodak's CDS (right John?!), and even a simple thing like Long Play Reels. The list goes on and on; the industry landscape is strewn with technologies that were perfectly good designs, but they died because of other factors having little do to with their intrinsic efficacy. If the economic model does not work, it doesn't matter WHAT the technology can do....if no one wants to buy it, it's a dead in the water. Backward compatibility has been one factor that cut the gonads off many a technological "revolution" and relegated it to no more than an historic oddity.

These guys who salivate over digital had better take a long, hard look at history. NOTHING is inevitable.

 |  IP: Logged

Bevan Wright
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 176
From: Fountain Valley, CA, USA
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted 06-26-2004 08:23 AM      Profile for Bevan Wright   Author's Homepage   Email Bevan Wright   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What happens if Kokak just starts racheting down the cost of 35mm print stock? ROI for the deployment of digital gets extended. Kokak continues to sell 35mm stock (assuming they don't want D-cinema to go). Studios save money. Exhibitors keep the current infrastructure and relationships in place. Exhibitors can make money off their pre-show advertising and alternative content with lower-grade 'disposable' digial projectors without the political and business issues (see Kokak press releases - this is where Kodak would make back their lost revenue from the print stock price reduction). Lots of very interesting possibilities - should be facinating to see it evolve.

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-26-2004 12:30 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Come again? How does Kodak recoup lost margins on film stock?

 |  IP: Logged

Bevan Wright
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 176
From: Fountain Valley, CA, USA
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted 06-26-2004 02:55 PM      Profile for Bevan Wright   Author's Homepage   Email Bevan Wright   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
New business opportunities -

Kodak, Century Theatres, CSM team up for digital pre-show

Kodak To Partner With Movie Tunes In Cinema Premiere

Kodak's New Digital Content Center Enhances Cinema

Hatch Marketing To Use Kodak Pre-Show Systems

Just speculating...

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 18 pages: 1  2  3  ...  12  13  14  15  16  17  18 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.