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Topic: HFR in 2013

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 12-02-2013 03:35 PM

Dear Brad,

For Christmas, I'd sure love it if we could get a troll filter installed here.

I've been real good this year.

Love,
Manny.

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Arnold Chase
Film Handler

Posts: 41
From: West Hartford, CT United States
Registered: Nov 2013

posted 12-02-2013 03:40 PM

WE are not dissimilar. In 1984 I put a commercial TV station on the air. Because quality mattered to me, I even aired kids cartoons from Type "C" machines instead of 3/4" as was customary. It took me several years to realize that no one cared, and I went back to 3/4".

Having said that, there is no excuse for not making sure that a presentation is exactly as it should be, but what it should be is for the audience to decide.

With that said, I certainly want to give this subject a rest.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 12-02-2013 03:53 PM

The producer/creator of the artwork, performance, etc. is the one who decides how it will be presented (within the parameters of what is practical). Not the audience.

Audiences, with the grading curve applied, are too clueless to know any better. Too few members of the audience are technically astute enough to be making important choices about frame rates, aspect ratios, sound formats, etc. This is one area where the lowest common denominator shouldn't be considered.

A lot of these folks can't tell the visual difference between film and video. To them an afternoon soap opera or the 6 o'clock news looks just like a Hollywood movie. HFR probably wouldn't bother them. But then they wouldn't understand why they need to pay another freaking surcharge for it either.

The average person is probably happy as a pig in poo with his cheap 55" 60Hz HDTV set, fed with a SD cable image put into stretch-o-vision. He thinks that's real HD. The same guy probably has a surround sound system, but hasn't figured out how to get his devices out of their stereo output defaults and actually do 5.1 channel surround.

Not too many people honestly understand the basics of this kind of stuff.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 12-02-2013 05:29 PM

quote: Manny Knowles
For Christmas, I'd sure love it if we could get a troll filter installed here.

That might filter The Hobbit all together...

This discussion about the looks of HFR isn't exactly new here, I still remember most of the arguments passing by last year.

Getting back to the original topic: Most first run cinemas around here showed The Hobbit in HFR as an option, those same cinemas are showing it again in HFR this year. I've noticed one additional chain now also jumping the HFR bandwagon, but they're not advertising it big time, they're just saying: Showing in HFR 3D, 3D and 2D.

What worries me though, is that all those additional versions are clogging up the schedule...

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Harold Hallikainen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 906
From: Denver, CO, USA
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 12-02-2013 05:46 PM

I understand that Hobbitt HFR is the first major release using a SMPTE DCP. How's that working? Is the audio routed properly?

Harold

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 12-02-2013 06:41 PM

Brad is right,

Yes, let the sheep decide. Why should cinemas be any better than the lowest common denominator.

Of course, a lot of today's films are made that way for that audience.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 12-02-2013 07:30 PM

quote: Arnold
When HDTV was about to be introduced, everyone behind the camera was going crazy because of the feared "new flaws" that would now be seen on the on-air talent, as well as the materials on the sets that would appear to look fake.

Does anyone still think that way now?

Everyone wasn't going crazy with fear. It was mostly old-ish news anchors who were insecure in their looks. I loved the transition to HD as a dude who watches stuff, a dude behind the camera and also a dude who edits stuff.

More frames per second is exactly what it sounds like. And unless they are doing some weird-ass interpolation of the frames, I don't see how there could be a learning curve. It's just a different look. It just doesn't work for dramatic material. It's friggin' great for videogames. It's OK for comedies I guess (at least those on TV which I do not watch). If more realism is what's desired, get rid of all music, only have one camera (handheld, of course) and just put the camera guy in the middle of the action and tell the actors to act out the entire thing. Not all things need to be more realistic.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-02-2013 08:07 PM

So far I haven't seen any Digital HFR that impressed me even half as much as anything with the name Showscan or Todd-AO attached to it.... Heck, even 24 fps Todd-AO looked batter!

Mark

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-02-2013 09:56 PM

quote: Joe Redifer
If more realism is what's desired, get rid of all music, only have one camera (handheld, of course) and just put the camera guy in the middle of the action and tell the actors to act out the entire thing. Not all things need to be more realistic.

Right! Realism is for...reality. Movies should look like movies.

The whole issue of how older people would look in HD was solved with makeup, apparently.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 12-02-2013 10:05 PM

Solved? I don't know. When I worked in TV some of those anchors applied that pancake makeup rather heavily.
[Eek!]

Maybe that's what they were afraid would show up in HD. Perhaps some TV anchor makeup application methods have changed?

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 12-04-2013 11:00 AM

quote: Arnold Chase
but what it should be is for the audience to decide.

quote: Justin Hamaker
But it shouldn't mean it's off limits just because it doesn't have the same look as 24fps.

I sort of agree, let the customers decide if they want to watch it in HFR or not. Good or bad, I like to see filmmakers take chances and try out new technology.

What I have finally accepted is that going to the movies in the last five or so years is nothing like what it was like back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. There is all this new crap that costs extra such as D-Box, Atmos, IMAX, AVX, 3D, expanding aspect rations and yes HFR, to watch any of these things costs extra in my territory.

HFR will get a big push with Avatar 2, a lot of regular folks will get the chance to see it and decide if it is something worth watching in the future. My hunch tells me that it will probably look good with Avatar 2 as James Cameron has usually been pretty consistent with embracing new technology and might make it work.

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 12-04-2013 11:02 AM

I did a query for showtimes for 12/13/2013 for all the variations of "The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug" and here are the number of unique theaters showing each:

[CODE]
1442 The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug
1248 The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug 3D
377 The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug in HFR 3D
231 The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug An IMAX 3D Experience
16 The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug An IMAX 3D Experience (HFR)
1 The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug The IMAX Experience
[/CODE]

Obviously, those numbers will change as more theaters report their showtimes.

Just to be thorough, I reran the query for 12/12/2013:

[CODE]
1615 The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug
1200 The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug 3D
599 The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug in HFR 3D
124 The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug An IMAX 3D Experience
19 The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug An IMAX 3D Experience (HFR)
2 The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug The IMAX Experience
[/CODE]

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 12-06-2013 05:17 PM

We just got our first confirmed booking of Hobbit 2 in 3D HFR (Apex Calvert Village 5). They were denied a copy on Hobbit 1 so yeah, the rules must have changed. I'll be curious to see if they've made any improvements to the the look of it on this version. I don't have my hopes up though.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 12-06-2013 06:43 PM

Why do they need to call it "The Imax Experience" even in stuff like this? A company's shitty slogan shouldn't be perpetuated into every little thing. They really must have everyone in their pockets. Fuck iMax.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 12-06-2013 09:58 PM

IMAX is going a lot farther than THX did in selling out its brand, labeling things that aren't shot in IMAX as an "IMAX Experience." It's baloney.

Customers can by a 2K digital cinema experience in countless thousands of theaters not labeled IMAX. IMAX doesn't have any exclusivity on the HFR 3D thing. This new Hobbit movie does feature a Dolby Atmos mix, so at least that's something specific, but it doesn't involve IMAX.

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