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Author Topic: HFR in 2013
Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012


 - posted 12-10-2013 07:59 AM      Profile for Terry Lynn-Stevens   Email Terry Lynn-Stevens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Not sure what has changed, perhaps the movie being better than the first one has something to do with it. Some critics were shown the 48 HFR version while some where not. I guess it is possible that some of the critics thought they were watching the HFR version when in fact they were not.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 12-10-2013 05:32 PM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I saw the trailer in HFR and thought it made it look like I was watching something shot for TV news.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

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From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 12-10-2013 05:58 PM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you haven't seen last years Hobbit presentation in HFR and are not "enjoying" it right now, here is a site that gives you some examples of what you might expect at higher frame rates.

Most of those sample movies are made using interpolation. That's essentially the same technique some of those flat screen TVs are using to artificially increase the frame rate, although probably with a bit more sophistication. So, it's not the real deal, but a rather strikingly close simulation: I've not yet seen this year's iteration of the Hobbit, but the look of the HFR version last year's release had some striking similarities with many of the "upconverted" trailers on that page.

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Elise Brandt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 160
From: Kuusankoski, FIN/ Kouvola, Finland
Registered: Dec 2009


 - posted 12-11-2013 12:46 AM      Profile for Elise Brandt   Email Elise Brandt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wau. This time around, HFR does rock. It looks... amazing. Awesome. Pick-your-jaw-off-the-floor great.

Jus one woman's opinion of course, and not of the whole movie, but what I saw during the testing last night right before the midnight screening. I absolutely cannot wait to see the whole thing.

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Harold Hallikainen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 906
From: Denver, CO, USA
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 12-11-2013 09:11 AM      Profile for Harold Hallikainen   Author's Homepage   Email Harold Hallikainen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Glad to hear it's looking good! I wonder what has changed. Maybe adding motion blur and showing each frame twice?

Harold

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012


 - posted 12-11-2013 03:19 PM      Profile for Terry Lynn-Stevens   Email Terry Lynn-Stevens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Elise Brandt
Wau. This time around, HFR does rock. It looks... amazing. Awesome. Pick-your-jaw-off-the-floor great.

Jus one woman's opinion of course, and not of the whole movie, but what I saw during the testing last night right before the midnight screening. I absolutely cannot wait to see the whole thing

Very interesting Elise, I am going to find out for myself on Friday. It looks like Warner outsmarted the naysayers. I going to wait till I see it for myself.

Here are some interesting things about Hobbit 2 HFR"

http://variety.com/2013/film/news/peter-jackson-hobbit-3d-looks-1200941962/

Peter Jackson: High Frame Rate 3D Look Improved on ‘Smaug’

In 2012, Warner Bros. and Peter Jackson were eager to show the world the latest innovation in filmmaking technology: “The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey” in High-Frame-Rate (48 frames per second) 3D. Reaction to the format was mixed, but the picture did over $1 billion at the box office.

This year, HFR 3D is back for part two of the trilogy, and there are 812 screens in the U.S. showing the HFR version of “The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug” — up from 462 for “An Unexpected Journey.” The studio chose not to show the HFR version of “The Desolation of Smaug” to press this year, but Jackson isn’t backing down. He not only says HFR is the best way to see the picture, he’s promising audiences will see a better version of HFR, thanks to lessons learned on part one.

Jackson insists “48 (frames per second) is a way, way better way to look at 3D. It’s so much more comfortable on the eyes.” And it addresses the problems with “strobing,” a.k.a. “judder,” where the image blurs up when the camera moves or there’s fast action onscreen.

“(Strobing) certainly is one of the contributing factors to eyestrain and people having an uncomfortable experience in 3D,” says Jackson.

But he concedes there were lots of objections on the blogosphere and among cinephiles to the super-crisp images of the first installment of “The Hobbit.”

“It was interesting to try to interpret what people’s reaction was,” he says. He concluded the problem was that the image looked like HD video, and was simply sharper than people are used to in cinema.

“So what I did is work that in reverse,” says Jackson. “When I did the color timing this year, the color grading, I spent a lot of time experimenting with ways we could soften the image and make it look a bit more filmic. Not more like 35 mm film necessarily, but just to take the HD quality away from it, which I think I did reasonably successfully.”

“The film speed and the look of the picture are almost, kind of, two different things,” he says.

By tweaking the picture digitally, he says, he was able to keep the advantages of HFR, he says, but tone down the hi-def-video look. “I was experimenting all the time and trying different things. It’s to do with diffusing the image a little but, using what’s called a Pro-Mist; it’s the saturation of the color. Scene by scene I’d make decisions and choices as to which way to go, so it wasn’t really one magic button to press.”

Jackson says he had many “so-called normal” people tell him “An Unexpected Journey” was “the best 3D I’ve ever seen.” But they were really talking about the high frame rate, because the 3D was really the same as anybody else’s 3D.” Warner Bros. president of domestic distribution Dan Fellman says the HFR screens “overperformed” on “An Unexpected Journey.”

Fellman says Regal Cinemas had especially good results with HFR. “The consumer liked what they saw and (Regal) decided to expand their footprint,” says Fellman.

But why stick to 24 frames per second for press and critics? ”I was part of that decision,” Jackson says. “Last year people felt compelled, for obvious reasons, to write about the frame rate, as well as about the film itself. So we just said any press screenings this year, do it at 24, so at least people will just focus on the movie itself.”

The HFR version is being shown at the film’s various official premieres.

Jackson says that he is certain of one thing: “100 years from now films are not going to be at 24 frames a second. The technology is going to move in ways we probably can’t even predict now. 100 years ago it was 16 frames a second, black-and-white. 100 years from now it’s going to be different again. At what point does a filmmaker use technology to push things along?

“‘The Desolation of Smaug’ is best seen in high frame rate, that’s all I can suggest to anyone who’s interested in seeing it.”

A full list of HFR theatres: Full HFR Theatre List

A Q & A is up with Peter Jackson:

Never heard this one before "The reduced motion blur on each frame increases sharpness and gives the movie the look of having been shot in 65mm or IMAX" Peter Jackson Q & A

ps: I am so sick of the word immersive He used it in every answer,

"I can assure you that every format will provide you with an incredible and immersive experience. "

"giving the movie a wonderful immersive quality"

" I wanted film audiences to experience just how remarkably immersive the theatrical cinema experience can be."

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 12-11-2013 04:24 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmm. Maybe I'll go check it out.

I'm curious how many of us will check it out -- even if we didn't like the look of the first one -- and how many will stay away, regardless of how good people say the 2nd one looks..?

I'm sick of "immersive" too.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
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 - posted 12-11-2013 04:28 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Harold Hallikainen
Glad to hear it's looking good! I wonder what has changed. Maybe adding motion blur and showing each frame twice?

Adding motion blur will get rid of most of the benefits they claim for HFR.

- Carsten

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Harold Hallikainen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 906
From: Denver, CO, USA
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 12-11-2013 06:31 PM      Profile for Harold Hallikainen   Author's Homepage   Email Harold Hallikainen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, that was my idea of a joke.... Run the content through a processor to make it look cinematic (24fps double flash). To do that, you add motion blur and have each frame repeat...

Harold

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

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From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 12-12-2013 12:54 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Carsten Kurz
Adding motion blur will get rid of most of the benefits they claim for HFR.
I don't fully agree on that one. For me the primary reason for higher frame rates would be to get rid of the "judder" during camera movements and strobing issues like the wagon-wheel-effect.

Adding that extra motion blur will probably get rid of that fast-forward-effect, that was really rather annoying in last year's presentation.

It is also clear that this year, the color timings were tweaked to look more like film. That's not really a HFR thing. I'm still convinced that a large part of the video look of the first Hobbit movie was due to sloppy color timing and lightning jobs, since even the 24 FPS version also looked rather videoish. So the combination of the bad color timing, dull lightning AND the HFR al conspired to make it look like (soap) opera, rather than fantasy epic.

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Buck Wilson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 894
From: St. Joseph MO, USA
Registered: Sep 2010


 - posted 12-12-2013 01:57 AM      Profile for Buck Wilson   Email Buck Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does anyone on this forum like ANYTHING? I am simply amazed at the negative aspect of almost everyone on almost everything. Jeez. Going so far as to talk someone down because of using the word 'immersive'..... Wow. I'm done.

Anyways, I loved the HFR in the first one, very excited to see it this time around as well. Now reading that he 'dumbed it down', I am worried, but very excited none the less.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 12-12-2013 11:37 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Buck, there's that old saying: "If three people tell you you're drunk, lie down."

The Kids in the Hall used to put it another way: "Thirty Helens agree..."

If you like HFR, fine. But take note that you are in the minority. Not just here on Film-Tech, but the world over.

There is no doubt in my mind that if HFR had been a "hit" when it debuted, we would have seen (a) more movies in HFR; and (b) more hype about HFR. Instead, we got ZERO other HFR movies and LESS hype about HFR this time around.

Figure it out.

(In my own defense... I *did* say I'd give it another shot in light of the positive remarks from people who had seen HOBBIT 2)

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-12-2013 12:22 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I definitely plan to see if they "fixed" anything. Remember Buck, I was predisposed to like it since I've liked other HFR stuff. I don't as a rule, like 3D though. However, what I have see of HFR 3D I have not liked. If I thought it looked good, I'd say so...Unlike Mikey, I do like some things.

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012


 - posted 12-12-2013 02:15 PM      Profile for Terry Lynn-Stevens   Email Terry Lynn-Stevens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Buck Wilson
Going so far as to talk someone down because of using the word 'immersive'..... Wow. I'm done.
Buck, I am pretty supportive of a number of things on this forum. I am going to check out HFR tonight for the Hobbit 2, I am into new technology and I am not stuck in the past like some others on the forum are.

As for immersive, I am sick and tired of so many people using the damn word. Peter Jackson used it in every answer he made during the FAQ for the Hobbit 2.

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Buck Wilson
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: St. Joseph MO, USA
Registered: Sep 2010


 - posted 12-12-2013 02:29 PM      Profile for Buck Wilson   Email Buck Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Fair enough y'all. All the negativity bugs me is all. Carry on!

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