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Topic: Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith

Jeremy Jorgenson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1002
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 05-20-2005 07:48 PM

quote: Frank Dubrois
Am I wrong, or was General Grievous coughing? Was he sick? Isnt he a robot?

No he's not a robot, but like Vader, he's more machine than man (or whatever race he was to begin with).

quote: Brad Miller
Who else thought the Tarzan howl was WAY out of place?

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that earlier, that DID kinda bug me... the Nosferatu & Frankenstein nods didn't bother me, in fact I enjoyed them, but the Tarzan yodel (or whatever) did for some reason.

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Kurt Zupin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 989
From: Maricopa, Arizona
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 05-20-2005 08:03 PM

A little back story on General Grievous, he was killed during the battle in Episode 2. He was the first run at what later became Anikan. He was a test, he did not want to be saved and made in to what he was. As for the cough, it was explained in Clone Wars Season 2 on Cartoon Network that he was fleeing Yoda and Mace, as his ship was flying away and he was standing on the ramp(just like in Ep 1 with Darth Maul and Qi-Gan)...Mace tried to use the force on him, General Grievous was too far away so the only thing it did was almost crush his lungs. Causing him to have a cronic caugh.

The tarzan yell was very mis placed

quote:
The regular folks like me will spread the bad WOM quickly, and I hear it’s already being downloaded on the Internet. I can see why Lucas wanted this released worldwide in as many locations as possible all at once. Expect this to fall 60% or more next weekend. And all these poor theatres with long contracts and multiple prints….suckers!

Even though Jermey already said it...Why in the hell are people who are not fans of the Star Wars films always going out and bashing it. This film is the best of the new 3 if not the best of the six...Stop bashing it like a cry baby and let people make there own choices.

And the only reason next weeks grosses will drop %50-60 is cause, this film will gross $150,000,000 opening weekend, shattering all boxoffice records on its way to the top. Hate to break your heart Eric.

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Brian Michael Weidemann
Expert cat molester

Posts: 944
From: Costa Mesa, CA United States
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 05-20-2005 09:47 PM

It seems there are rather a lot of spoiler-type discussions here, and I guess this post will be no different.

Okay, upon a second full viewing, I have a rather large question.

Who was firing upon the ship holding the captive Palpatine? If the two Jedi are on the rescue mission, wouldn't their side know better than to shoot down the ship during the rescue attempt? And if it was the Separatist side shooting ... well, wasn't it a Separatist ship? It seems rather weak to explain it all with the simple "War!" proclamation in the crawl.

Another little thing that bugged me ... Grievous said that he, too, was trained in the Jedi arts. Then he immediately wields the four sabers in the MOST specialized attack of the whole franchise. It sounds like an empty boast since I doubt a Jedi taught him that. [Smile]

I also realized that they got James Earl Jones to do a bad Hayden impression. Vader can't be whiny, and yet ...

I realized, sitting through the whole thing straight again, that, yes, it's just a long case study as Eric said. That dry spell of nothing but one-on-one dialog scenes was so boring! Lucas had no choice but to make the venue setting more interesting just to keep the static drawl seeming fresh.

And my roommate made the observation that Padmé was so appalled at "how much Anakin had changed" and didn't know him anymore, completely oblivious to how much her "character" was unlike the Episode II Padmé. In Clones, she kicked ass and could take care of herself, very strong. In Sith, she ... turned into a chick! (as my roommate puts it) [Big Grin]

And the worst exclamation of all: Anakin's "I HATE YOU!" Didn't he say that exact thing, in exactly the same way, in Life As A House? [Roll Eyes]

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 05-20-2005 11:42 PM

OK, here goes......... I thought it was pretty good (2.5/4 stars). Some of the dialog or sounds were just laughable but I'd expected that. I think there was a little too much going on and screen time wasted on things like the wookie planet for the sole purpose of seeing chewbaca. Why did we need to see him? We didn't need to see young Han Solo.

I would have liked if a little more time was spent on Anakin turning to the dark side instead of one second he's good and the next second he's turned.

I think George Lucas possesses some kind of ability to suck the acting ability out of people? Natalie Portman gets worse by the episode.

I thought (as with EPI and II) that the digital backgrounds were way too "slick" looking and not realistic. It's sorta like you're watching Roger Rabbit in reverse with people running around a cartoon world.

It's been a long time since I've watched the original films but I think there were a couple of continuity errors to the original trilogy. The first was brought to my attention by somebody in the group I saw it with. He said that in "Return of the Jedi" Leia asks Luke if he remembers their mother and then Leia says something about her (Padme). If true I didn't know babies had such good memory. Second, wasn't Luke's (formerly Anakin's) light saber green? The one he was using to fight Obi-wan (which Obi-wan picked up) was blue wasn't it?

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-21-2005 12:21 AM

quote: Michael Schaffer
I didn't think it would be necessary to point this out: Anakin Skywalker IS Darth Vader, at a younger age. So DV does feature very prominently throughout the movies.

I can't believe you didn't get what I meant. Sure he's in the movie, but he doesn't FULLY "become" Darth Vader until that helmet clamps on. Some people are upset that there isn't "more Darth" -- the COMPLETE Darth -- in the movie.

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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 05-21-2005 12:54 AM

OK, I guess I completely missed any reference to General Grievous in Episode II. I think its rediculous to need a PhD in the Star Wars arts just to understand a character. I saw no human form on General Grievous at all. Most people who dont religeously follow Star Wars wont get it either. The Tarzan yell was just as rediculous in this movie as it was in ROTJ. The acting was crap..period. The only bright spot was McGregor's performance of Obi-Wan..very good. Didn't George saw that "Star Wars" was about the two droids? I know I read that somewhere...that these movies follow the two droids. Also, I remember an interview ON CAMERA from George who stated, and I quote, "A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing". Right on George!! Next time follow your own advice. We cant blame George 100%, he most likely is surrounded by a bunch of YES men who are just happy to be involved in the project. At least its over...

Oh yeah....Vaders over-charged emotional yell...STOOPID. Not the stoic hard-ass bad-ass character I remember from Episodes IV-VI. How about Govenor Tarkin in the end?? Close look-a-like? or not even close?? If they can digitize everything else, why not get some old footage of Peter Cushing and digitize him...I thought they were way off.

I'm done

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 05-21-2005 02:16 AM

quote: Mike Blakesley
I can't believe you didn't get what I meant. Sure he's in the movie, but he doesn't FULLY "become" Darth Vader until that helmet clamps on. Some people are upset that there isn't "more Darth" -- the COMPLETE Darth -- in the movie.

You are right, Mike, I knew what you meant, but I couldn't resist pointing that out. I personally do not miss "more Darth", but I think the transition is not very well done either. OK, Anakin gets angrier and angrier and all that, then he gets really badly wounded, the Emperor sticks him in that suit that he apparently had ready. It's all very unbelieveable and wooden.
There is no more backstory and elements than that the Sith are mentioned all the time, the Emperor just gives him a new name, OK, we learn that Darth is a really popular name with the Sith, but why "Vader"?

AND DID NOBODY NOTICE THE GLARING CONTINUITY ERROR DURING THAT SCENE?

You see how the droid proceeds to put the mask on his face, he lowers it and then there is a cut to a closeup of Darth as the mask is put on his face. The mask fits on the collar - which had not been there just before the cut.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 05-21-2005 03:35 AM

quote: Frank Dubrois
Oh yeah....Vaders over-charged emotional yell...STOOPID. Not the stoic hard-ass bad-ass character I remember from Episodes IV-VI....

Oh, but remember ye heartless one: he lost his wife and his two children. I'm sure if you lost your loved ones to a lie...you'd yell as well.

Thus, to keep his children safe from the "Empire" and the wrath of the Emperor, he HAD to be the hard,bad assed character that he promised to keep to the Emperor..until it was time for the Emperor to be disposed of (which came in EP-VI).

-Monte

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Jeremy Jorgenson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1002
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 05-21-2005 05:42 AM

quote: Lyle Romer
He said that in "Return of the Jedi" Leia asks Luke if he remembers their mother and then Leia says something about her (Padme). If true I didn't know babies had such good memory. Second, wasn't Luke's (formerly Anakin's) light saber green? The one he was using to fight Obi-wan (which Obi-wan picked up) was blue wasn't it?

hmm, I'm not sure (it's been since 2002 since I've seen any of the other SW films) but I think she said all she had was impressions of her mother... which could be because of her "jedi-ness" but... I could totally be mis-remembering this.

As for the light saber... Luke has a blue one (Anakin's old one) in epsodes IV & V, until Darth Vader chops his hand off (& he looses his hand & saber)... then for Ep VI, he makes a new one (green) & Darth comments on it & his skill.

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Adam Wilbert
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 590
From: Bellingham, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 05-21-2005 03:38 PM

leia says that her mother was beautiful, and a few other things. maybe she was talking about her foster mother and not Padme, since, as far as I know, she believes the pair from Alderan to be her true parents. Maybe I'm missing something though.

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William Valdes
Film Handler

Posts: 37
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Sep 2004

posted 05-21-2005 04:00 PM

Screw the naysayers! This film (campy moments and all) was fun and holds up well with the original trilogy.

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Michael Gonzalez
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 790
From: Grand Island , NE USA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 05-21-2005 06:32 PM

quote: Michael Schaffer
They already started building the Death Star? So it eventually took them 20 years to complete it? But then it only took them maybe a year or 2 to build an even bigger one later?

Dont you know anything? They were able to build the ROTJ one faster because they used "Independent Contractors". [Big Grin]

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 05-21-2005 07:06 PM

Remember though the RotJ one wasn't finished. It's main weapon was operational but it was still barely half complete.

But yeah, the time is still messed up.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 05-21-2005 09:17 PM

quote: Michael Gonzalez
Dont you know anything? They were able to build the ROTJ one faster because they used "Independent Contractors".

I know, that's what they said in "Clerks".
BTW, one thing that I would have liked to see as an improvement in the so-called "Special Edition" would have been a more "realistic" explosion of the Death Star, with it breaking apart into independently exploding pieces, or something like that, rather than the single firecracker-style explosion (with or without the added belt wave effect).

quote: Frank Dubrois
If Yoda and Obi Wan were trying to hide Luke from Vader, why didnt Obi Wan request that Luke NOT carry the name SKYWALKER....Leia didnt. Shouldnt he have been Luke Lars?

No, he should have been Luke Owen. Still, it does seem like a really stupid idea to "hide" him under his true name in his uncle's place on Anakin's actual home planet.
Just one more of many examples where it would have been very interesting how to resolve the story in a really good script, just as it would have been great to see how they could have designed Episodes 1-3 to make the world it takes place a believeable precursor to the world of 4-6. That was actually what I had been looking forward to. And in those 2 departments Lucas failed on a galactic scale. Why? Why? He had already figured out back then that he should enlist some very talented people and guide the project rather than taking everything into his own hands.

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Michael Gonzalez
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 790
From: Grand Island , NE USA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 05-22-2005 01:48 AM

Alright saw the movie eariler today... It was pretty much what I expected (maybe just a little better). It is definitely better than Episodes 1&2. The acting and dialogue was a bit weak but nothing too distracting. In fact the only thing I found really distracting was the cartoony voices and "humor" from the battle droids (and one of the Vice Roys) at the beginning. I also agree that there were too many tight shot of the lightsabers during the fights and I think it took something away from what they could have been (you didnt see those shots in the awsome Darth Maul fight at the end of episode 1). It also looked like quite a bit of the final fight between Vader and Obi-Wan was left on the cutting room floor.

quote: Lyle Romer
I would have liked if a little more time was spent on Anakin turning to the dark side instead of one second he's good and the next second he's turned.

I completely agree with that statement. It makes no sence that he would go from questioning "everyones" motives to obeying the emperor's commands and killing without any hesitation or after thought. Also if his plan (as spoken to Padme) was for him to kill the emperor and rule the empire, he sure as hell took his sweet ass time as 20 years later not only is he still just an apprentice, but he is not even as powerful as the emperor. After all the whining about not wanting to wait to be a jedi master, he must have learned some kind of patience after donning the mask.

The General Grievous character was not as bad as I thought it was going to be when I first heard of him. Though it would have been nice to have had his humanoid form in episode 2 instead of creating him out of thin air for this last movie.

The only continuity issues that have really bothered me, is that in Episode 4, Vader is more or less third in command behind Govenor Tarkin (who should have gotten at least some screen time in Revenge). Also some of the other generals didnt seem to have that much respect for Vader "you old sorcerer and your acient religion" as if they didnt really know anything or have any respect for the force (they were of course old enough to be alive during the republic and Jedi councel) let alone their own emperor being a Sith. It alway seemed to me that Lucus didnt make the emperor a sith until "Empire" similar to the Jabba the Hut thing where the character was a human until Jedi. So anyway I always had more of a problem with the continuity between New Hope and Empire than with the new movies.

Anyway anyone else notice any "easter eggs"? The only thing I noticed was the Millennium Falcon landing in a wide shot near the beginning (the scene right after they "land" General Grievous' ship).

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