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Topic: Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith

Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene

Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 05-23-2005 05:25 PM

quote: Frank Dubrois
Obi-Wan didnt know the two droids in Episode IV when he first met luke.

He never said he didn't know the droids. He only said that he never recalled owning any droids. Obi-wan was placed into seclusion to watch over Luke, whom he had several occasions to meet over the years as he grew. He was to take no action until the droid came looking for him, and then he must very carefully move Luke into Jedi status, to avoid the desaster they had with his father Anakin.

This one was easy. Give me a hard one.

Ciao

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 05-23-2005 07:27 PM

But the way Alec Guiness played his role during the first encounter with the robots made it very clear that he had never seen them before, but instantly understood that their coming to him had a great significance. It also seems from the way she addresses him in the holo-message, that Leia knows Kenobi quite well. Of course it is possible that he visited her and the Organa family on Alderaan, but the way they split up at the end of Episode 3 makes it seem very unlikely.
I think the inclusion of the robots in 1-3 is one of the worst mistakes in the scripts, along with the inclusion of way too many other familiar characters or their fathers etc. Like I said before, it shrinks a vast and interesting universe full of discoveries and surprises down to the scope of an afternoon family cartoon series. Kind of like Pooh, the Heffalump, and all his cuddly friends.

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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 05-23-2005 09:38 PM

Quite simply...the movie BLEW. It didn't answer any of my questions, in fact it seemed to have raised more than it answered. Hayden Christenson was the WORST choice for Anakin.. I think he ruined it more for me than any of the other actors.

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Jeremy Jorgenson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1002
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 05-23-2005 10:59 PM

quote: Frank Dubrois
We know those planets and creatures dont exist, so we are more critical of the effects. I think this is why magicians dont tell people how they do their tricks. Its also why the original series was so much better....even though they used models and people in costumes to play monsters, we knew that we were looking at a solid object waslking around a REAL set interacting with the other actors. This last set of movies, very little was real...and instead of putting us in aww of a strange new world...we were looking at the screen yelling "Hey look at that CGI alien in the CGI pod racing across that CGI landscape."

Then why did Sin City garner such critical & fan acclaim? ... everybody knew there were little to no sets. I do actually agree somewhat with what you're saying, but I just don't think that it's the CGI that makes the folks that dislike Eps I-III dislike said episodes. At least not exclusively.

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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 05-24-2005 01:17 AM

I heard nothing of Sin City before seeing. Since it was based bascially in "todays time" more or less, some of the CGI was very acceptable. Going into Star Wars we KNEW none of those places exhisted and you know they had a lot of blue screens going. George is almost fantical about backgrounds being "busy" and I personally dont think its necessary to tell the story. Look what he did you Mos Eisley in the Special Edition. Did we need all that extra activity? NO, it was more of a nuicense to me and very distracting. I didnt need robots pounding little robots to the ground or need to see more "acting" out of the dewback when they were walking into the cantina. Or how about in cloud city...the original sported white hallways and extras walking around. In the special Edition, George put "windows" and "outside locations" into the scene...inevitably little space ships were flying around etc etc. George has wandered away from what made the first trilogy great...the STORY. The prequels were weak, and I think he knew it. So he beefed up the CGI to "wow" us into thinking its a great movie. Its not. His forced attempts at oe liners failed miserably in all three prequels, the actors he selected was very poor. He really didnt need to pick all the celebrties that he did. One or two ok...but he went overboard.

There was an interview I saw on TV in a Star Wars special that kind of explains it all...Harrison Ford was talking about Georges script. How George writes it down and expects the actors to say it verbatim. I think he was more lienient in the first 3 movies, but his big head got in the way this time and it seems like he forced the actors to do it HIS way. Natile Portman is a good actress, but not in this movie. I blame George. Samuel L Jackson is one of our best...but not in this movie. I'm so disappointed...yet so relieved its over. Now I wait for the TV series he is going to make. Lets hope he lets someone else write and direct it and he can sit at the skywalker ranch and "executive produce" it...PLEASE.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-24-2005 12:27 PM

I'm not a big Star Wars nut, but I did enjoy EpIII, so I decided to enlighten myself a bit on some of the other movies -- I've seen them all but haven't "absorbed" them the way some people have.

Last night I had spare time so I visited the "Internet Movie Database" (www.imdb.com) and read the 'memorable quotes' section of the original Star Wars, which I've only seen once (in the 1997 reissue). WOW, what a difference. That movie actually has FUN dialogue from all of the characters. I know this movie is being criticized for its dialogue, but I didn't realize the differences were this vast. Now I know what everyone's griping about.

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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 05-24-2005 01:52 PM

Its kinda of a shame that your first exposure to the original trilogy had to be the special edition. The special edition gets slammed about as much as the prequels do, just not in this forum since this is about new releases. Try to find the ORIGINAL trilogy. Experience what has made this epic so loved. It will also give you a clear understanding as to why so many of us get pissed off about this new crap George is shoveling.

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Pravin Ratnam
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 844
From: Atlanta, GA,USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 05-24-2005 04:51 PM

Loved the Original Trilogy including Jedi even if parts of Jedi sucked.

I didn't care for TPM. Then again, I find Liam Neeson a boring actor and he needs a good script or director to bring out the edginess hidden deep inside him. I hated the kid in TPM. I think Maul was about the only good thing in TPM. Hated the video game like CGI fights. Portman was flat out awful in TPM.

I found ATOC OK. Portman was better even if not totally convincing. Ewan was still a little bland. Dooko- name sucks, but Lee rocked. Once again, too much clutter in each frame. I liked the clone factory the best in terms of visuals because I like simplistic (not to be confused with primitive or outdated) sci fi designs. I actually didn't have a problem with Hayden in either movie. I thought he nailed his part for the most part. If you hoped for better, blame Lucas for his handling of actors.

ROTS: Well, I am mixed on this. I found parts of the first half boring. I hated the buzz droids. The first battle sequence should have rivalled the final fight in Ep4 for majesty with the only difference being Lucas had the advantage of better FX resources. Instead, we got these idiotic droids giving it that cartoon feel. The Jedi Council, wise they are not.

Loved a lot of the second half. I loved it when a lot of the alien CGI beings get destroyed because that leaves more time for the human characters. What a nice thrill to see the white hallway towards the end of the movie. Glad to see Lucas had to "compromise" on his grand vision for the sake of continuity with Ep 4 to give me a simpler set design which actually looked better to me.

The final Ewan- Anakin confrontation was moving. "YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE" was a great line. Would have hoped for better CGI with the fire background on the overlong and not creative light saber battle that preceded that line. You would think Lucas would have the resources to actually match the LOTR fire stuff.

Portman was adequate. I thought Ian McDormand was the obvious highlight. Followed by Ewan McGregor and Hayden in their roles. Sam Jackson was not at his best, but an improvement over his horrible stiffness in Ep1 and 2. Even Jimmy Smits wasn't too shabby(I thought he stuck out in Ep2). I wish they had a little background on the youngling who fights hard.

Was it just my theater or did a lot of scenes in Padme's room seem underlit?

A lot of fans seem to have a problem with the NOOOOOOOOOO at the end. It didnt bother me as much. But they shouldnt have shown Vader during that scene. They should have focused on Sidius's grinning smug face when the NOOOOO was uttered. Also they should have gotten James Earl Jones to do more takes so they could choose a better one.

Why would they use Skywalker as the last name for Luke if the intention was to hide him?

Overall, a must see for Star Wars fans, but dont expect greatness even if some scenes deliver.

WISHLIST:
Too bad Jar Jar is not defending the younglings so he would have died first.

I wasnt that impressed with John Williams score. He should have left some scenes quiet. His score was way too busy. The only part of the score i liked was the old star wars theme reused.

ONE AREA WHERE LUCAS OUTDID PETER JACKSON(prequels vs LOTR:
HE DIDN"T CUT OUT CHRISTOPHER LEE'S CHARACTER IN EP3.

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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 05-24-2005 09:34 PM

I would love to find out how many people actually LIKED Hayden Christenson as Anakin. I would guess it would be something like 80% hate, 19% acceptable, 1% Perfect for the role.

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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-25-2005 12:57 AM

I can't really judge Christensen's performance. Face it, all these actors were having major problems delivering performances up to their usual standards for whatever the reasons: script, dialogue, direction, nothing but a blue or green screen to work with, etc.

Ewan McGregor's an exceptional actor & almost always turns in a great performance, but face it, these Star Wars movies are his most mediocre performances. Christensen also could have been doing all he could with the Melancholy Dane-akin sludge & direction he had to work with.

I felt sorry for Christensen a number of times, like when he had to do the take to the camera for no reason just to show the cool contact lenses & costume that would look so good in publicity materials. In a good movie, that would be a POV shot from another character learning something, or to otherwise move the story, etc. Here, it's just an empty pose.

The movie works well when it's just trying to be a good, well-crafted piece of entertainment, but becomes ludicrous at points where it takes itself *so* seriously. The first SW played it straight so it would all work, but it wasn't all wrapped up in itself. Brief, shorthand, guy in black hat is villain, does bad things as you'll see, sympathy cast with other characters through the usual means.

The first SW tried to be nothing but an honest Errol Flynn/Buck Rogers Hollywood funfest, the 2nd (which is my favorite, but really not as good a movie) tried to get a little more meaty with the plot & characters, but after that Lucas re-calibrated his intentions to seem more shaman-esque than showman, gobbling what his ego required after he'd gotten his fill of one.

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Jeremy Jorgenson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1002
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 05-25-2005 01:22 AM

I agree with what some have said... if the acting bugs you, don't blame the actors, at least for these films... they are Lucas's films through & through.

I personally thought Ewan nailed Sir Alec's mannerisms & accent as Obi-Wan, and Hayden is definitely a good actor (see Shattered Glass & heck, even Life as a House).

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 05-25-2005 10:10 AM

The actors in Star Wars get a pass. George wrote the dialog, George directs the actors, George gets exactly what he wants on the screen. It's not necessarily the actors' fault. Good actors don't just suddenly look bad for no reason.

I thought Ewan McGregor (sp?) was very good in EP3. Hayden Christensen didn't bother me at all either. Natalie Portman was OK. Christopher Lee always rocks.

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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene

Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 05-25-2005 03:04 PM

quote: Michael Schaffer
But the way Alec Guiness played his role during the first encounter with the robots made it very clear that he had never seen them before, but instantly understood that their coming to him had a great significance. It also seems from the way she addresses him in the holo-message, that Leia knows Kenobi quite well.

ONE: Yes he made it clear, as I stated before this was all part of the master plot. It would not be a good idea to just go "OH MY GOSH, look its R2D2 and his sidekick! Hey, hows leah? Seen darth lately?" The point of ObiWan bieng there was to watch over and protect luke, not shock the poor boy so much so fast that he would take the same turn as his father did. Do you not think that the master jedi who took out Anakin could not act the part just enough to keep young luke at bay?

TWO: Leah very specifically said in her message that she did not know ObiWan, but rather that he fought with her father in the clone wars, which he did. Remember that leah was a member of the Senate, so her speaking skills would be such that she spoke to anyone as if she were thier childhood best friend, as any good polititian would do.

Somebody PLEASE make this harder...

Ciao

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Adam Wilbert
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 590
From: Bellingham, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 05-25-2005 11:55 PM

okay dave, what's your take on leia talking about her mother at the end of Jedi. Who the heck was she talking about?

How does killing the emperor at the end of Jedi suddenly make Vader okay in the eyes of the force? Isn't killing your master what every good Sith is supposed to do?

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-29-2005 12:26 PM

It's too bad they don't teach physics in Hollywood High Schools.
A little accuracy in some of the scenes would have made this movie and a few others much more enjoyable.

George
There's no air in space, so aerodynamic flight is not possible, Opening up wings and spoilers and flaps makes no difference when you go into attack.
Also because there is no air, when things come loose from your ship, they are not swept away, they just continue along with the ship unless the are propelled away by an external force (explosion etc.) They knew of this concept a long time ago in this galaxy. Check out "Conquest of Space"
If you're hovering over a river of lava you'd be toast. You wouldn't need to wait until you fell on the lava river bank to burst into flames.

Maybe physics doesn't work the same in a galaxy far far away?

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