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Author Topic: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull: May 22, 2008 Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 03-02-2008 08:47 PM                        I bet the 35mm presentation in a theater which is used to showing digital on all screens is absolutely disgusting.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-02-2008 11:11 PM                     The film projection quality shouldn't be any different -provided the personnel in the booth built up the print correctly and handled it properly. Usually an auditorium with both 35mm and digital projection will have the original 35mm projector left in its original placement with the new system installed alongside (and requiring that digital keystone adjustment thingie to be used). One area that can be screwed up is the audio. It can be complicated to get both 35mm digital sound equipment and the audio from d-cinema set up properly within the same booth rack. When our local Carmike theater first went digital the DTS players on the two screens with 35mm capability weren't set up. The techs had to make a return trip to get things set up so both 35mm and d-cinema had digital surround sound.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 03-02-2008 11:29 PM                        My point is that most of the people there won't know how to handle 35mm properly since they're used to digital. With the turnover rate of the average movie theater, it is likely that many if not most "qualified" personnel have even run 35mm before at all. I'd love to see such a complex where no single employee had ever run 35mm and they have to guess.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-03-2008 06:06 AM                     Bobby, All of the DCinema projectors have a mechanical lens shift to avoid any digital keystone correction. In fact, there isn't any digital keystone correction in a DCinema projector (which is just plain silly). Instead, a DCinema projector, once lens shift has been maxed out, merely "masks" the image in the same way an aperture plate masks film...it blocks off those pixels that would spill onto the masking. If digital keystone correction was available...sure you would take a hit by morphing pixels but unlike a powerpoint show where that would be immediately noticable, on a motion picture it wouldn't be nearly as bad...what such are subtitles and such running down at an angle and "masking" does not hide that. Many of my booths are now 3-projector with two film and one digital...since the shows often must have a mix of both film and digital, sliding machines around is not an option and keystone distortion is a concern.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-03-2008 08:52 AM                     That's good to hear that an optical keystone correction method is being used rather than something that screws with the pixels in the video image. I thought the Christie CP2000 series used a digital method. quote: Joe Redifer My point is that most of the people there won't know how to handle 35mm properly since they're used to digital. With the turnover rate of the average movie theater, it is likely that many if not most "qualified" personnel have even run 35mm before at all. Agreed, if the movie theater is having snack counter workers run the projectors upstairs then there's going to be some serious problems due to that typical high employee turnover rate. It's a bad enough idea turning loose minimum wage teenage employees on a bunch of high priced digital projection gear. The situation is going to be much better if the theater manager and assistant managers are handling the projection chores. Of course, that situation still isn't as good as having a full time projectionist run all the shows. At least the managers are usually going to have a lot more film handling experience.  |  IP: Logged David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 03-03-2008 09:20 AM                     Actually the Barco allows digital keystone correction - I talked with an installer and he mentioned the keystone correction as part of his set up procedure (I beleive this goes against DCI, but I'm not governing these installs so I can't say anything). I do believe that if IJ4 ends up being film only there will be many compromised (i.e. "disgusting") shows due to untrained staff at many digital locations that only have 2-3 35mm and a high staff turnover.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-03-2008 09:26 AM                     What he was referring to is masking...there is no digital keystone correction in the Barco's that I know of. Steve  |  IP: Logged David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 03-03-2008 09:34 AM                     hmmm, weird, the person specifically mentioned doing a keystone adjustment electronically on the Barco (by using the setup interface) . . . . . I'll have to follow up to see exactly what he was talking about . . . . .  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 03-03-2008 10:34 AM                       He had to have been talking about lens shift and/or cropping. The Barco software has a cool click and drag interface for masking - which, btw, includes curving it. Note this doesn't curve the picture, just the masking.  |  IP: Logged Kyle Anderson Film Handler Posts: 86 From: Tyler, TX, USA Registered: Dec 2005 posted 03-03-2008 11:45 AM                     IIRC the real problem with mostly-digital multiplexes using 35mm after long digital-only stints isn't that the operators forgot how to use film -> it's more that they (we) no longer have access to qualified 35mm technicians *cough Christie*, so the machines get out of whack (shutter timing gets funky, etc) and it doesn't get fixed. Subjectively, this is a very stupid move - $10 million to strike 6000+ prints, another quarter million to distribute them, and pissed off customers for the 99% of presentations that will suck horribly because of above stated issues, vs a few million to digitally master the thing, plus satellite bandwidth to distribute it (thanks George). Financially, it's not even a question. And Christie CP2000s use digital masking with a zoom lens (except for poor 3d setups with too short a throw, which use a static lens to increase magnification).  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-03-2008 12:07 PM                        The above isn't quite true. Any cost savings from not making film prints would be minimal, since a) the majority of screens still run film and need prints and b) the majority of screens have VPF agreements in place. Steve--in a 3-machine booth, do you position the 35mm machines in the usual way (equally offset from the screen centerline), with the DLP to one side? Or do you use some other configuration? What about a 4-machine booth (2x35mm, 16mm, DLP)? The only 4-machine setup in town has a small DLP mounted on the ceiling in the rear of the house and the 16mm machine off-center, but that wouldn't work with a full-size DLP unit.  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-03-2008 12:14 PM                    quote: I got confirmation from my booker that Paramount (at least as of today) will indeed NOT be making this movie available in D-Cinema format. quote: An e-mail I received from NATO today said that Paramount will be distributing Indy in both digital and film. So which is it?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-03-2008 12:19 PM                     Mine was posted first, so it sounds like Spielberg changed his mind.  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-03-2008 12:26 PM                    Ah, well... It was fun while it lasted. Maybe we can get him to change it again.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-03-2008 01:43 PM                     It's all about the Benjamins. Making the movie available in both 35mm and digital is going to allow Indy 4 to be booked on more theater screens (and at considerably lower cost as well). Other big event movies being released in May must also be factored into the equation. Indy 4 is definitely going to be able to grab up a lot of movie theater screens. But it could run into some real hassles with all d-cinema theaters with only 1 or 2 35mm projectors on site. Offering both digital and 35mm prints will make it easier to get the show booked on more screens that are available.  |  IP: Logged

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