Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: D-SLR chat

my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Community » Film-Yak » D-SLR chat (Page 8)

This topic comprises 12 pages: 1 2 3 ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

Author

Topic: D-SLR chat

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 11-13-2009 11:34 AM

They should offer that same firmware update for all of their DSLR cameras that can do video, not just that one.

| IP: Logged

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-13-2009 12:50 PM

I agree. The upside is Canon might end up doing that. Originally they weren't going to update the 5D Mark II with 1080p/24 capability but when enough people complained and it looked like the 7D might attract too many potential 5D buyers Canon relented and began work on a firmware update.

quote: Scott Norwood
Regarding the camera thing: if you want a video camera, why not just buy a video camera? I can see why a digital still camera might be useful for animators who would use it on a copy stand (and then put the frames together on a computer), but I don't see the benefit of using one instead of a normal video camera to shoot live action. Different tools for different purposes. Or maybe I'm just stupid.

It all comes down to how you want a certain shot to look. A video capable DSLR can provide a great deal of flexibility.

A DSLR camera can use a much wider variety of lenses than what is available for a traditional video camera setup. You can use macro lenses, tilt-shift lenses, prime lenses with huge apertures, telephoto and super telephoto lenses.

Many video cameras are stuck with a one size fits all lens pack. Video cameras with interchangeable lens packs have a more limited range of choices than the choices of lenses availble for DSLR cameras.

The full frame sensor in the Canon EOS 5D Mark II is larger than the sensors found in most video cameras. I think that helps the camera capture some great color and constrast quality. With video cameras, the ones with 1/3" CCDs are already fairly expensive and then moving up to a 2/3" system just ends up breaking the bank.

The drawbacks with 5D MkII and 7D is both shoot lossy compressed AVC encoded video and can't output uncompressed HD. Both have some sort of rolling shutter thingie going on while shooting video that makes it a big problem if you want to do any fast pans. You'll see vertical objects (buildings, light posts, etc.) get slanted looking during the pan. It's best to shoot stationary from a tripod or move the camera slowly if shooting hand held. The weight of the camera body and a fairly big lens can damp out some camera shake, but you really need to use a more expensive image stabilized lens if shooting hand held.

A number of companies are creating after-market products such as focusing rails, outboard LCD monitors and more for the 5D Mark II and 7D.

| IP: Logged

Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 11-14-2009 12:38 AM

quote: Joe Redifer
I have a video camera that shoots at 60fps, but lays down the video at 24fps for true slow motion.

Joe, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Your footage *is* in slow motion and looks fantastic, but it still plays back nearly 50% faster than 96 would (4x normal). 60 fps isn't quite "movie" slow motion; high-speed studio cameras generally shoot slo-mo at 96 fps. It has a certain look about it that I'd like to see introduced into these new cameras at some point. [dlp]

| IP: Logged

Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 11-14-2009 11:02 AM

The specs on the EOS 50D say it has an HDMI output that can be fed to an HD monitor. I assume that to mean it's a live video feed?

Question: If so, can you take that HDMI output and capture images from it on a computer -- without snapping the shutter on the camera -- for use in something like stop-motion animation?

| IP: Logged

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-14-2009 02:27 PM

The HDMI output on certain Canon EOS DSLR bodies will provide a live feed to a TV set. I don't think you're supposed to connect the camera to a computer via HDMI.

Most DSLR cameras can be remotely operated via USB 2.0 cable when "tethered" to a computer. Canon's EOS utility has pretty good remote shooting controls. Additionally, a remote shutter release like the Canon TC-80N3 has intervalometer functions for creating things like time lapse sequences. It's a compact device that's far easier to carry to an outdoor location than a notebook computer. Its battery life lasts far longer. You take a bunch of still images, re-size them for the video frame dimensions and then drop them into the timeline of a video editor. Image quality with the still frame approach is better than trying to shoot time lapse or stop motion using a video format. You can even shoot the frames in RAW format if you have the disc space. On top of that, you could shoot an animation for 4K format, not just 1080p or SD. My camera would down-size from "5.6K" to 4K.

The Timescapes web site has a couple good time lapse videos created using the EOS 5D Mark II.

| IP: Logged

Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 11-14-2009 03:56 PM

Thanks, Bobby! [Smile]

These are very new to me.

Shooting via the camera and transferring very high-res images would be my preferred method, however, I have been reading about (and concerned with) the amount of exposures I could take over a period of time doing a lot of animation or time lapse: the shutter operational life. Are these mechanical shutters with pellicles that flip out of the way when exposures are made?

Also, I hear the frame to frame exposure can vary ever so slightly with mechanical shutters, as to render any animation unusable?

| IP: Logged

Mark Ogden
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 943
From: Little Falls, N.J.
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-14-2009 04:45 PM

It's already been done as a feature: Tim Burton shot the stop-motion film The Corpse Bride with Canon EOS 1D cameras and glass. The camera output RAW files to Apple Shake thru a Cineon CMS box, which added a look-up table meant to emulate the look of Kodak 5248 film stock.

| IP: Logged

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-14-2009 06:11 PM

quote: Tim Reed
I have been reading about (and concerned with) the amount of exposures I could take over a period of time doing a lot of animation or time lapse: the shutter operational life. Are these mechanical shutters with pellicles that flip out of the way when exposures are made?

DSLR cameras have a reflex mirror that flips up. Shutter "curtains" rest behind the mirror and in front of the camera's image sensor. Canon's 1D series bodies have a shutter durability rating of 300,000 exposures. The 5D Mark II and 7D shutters are rated for 150,000 shots. The less expensive bodies are rated for 100,000 exposures. Fortunately, DSLR shutters can be replaced.

quote: Tim Reed
Also, I hear the frame to frame exposure can vary ever so slightly with mechanical shutters, as to render any animation unusable?

A few steps should be taken to keep the shot stable and consistent looking as possible.

* Use a custom, manual white balance. Auto white balance will cause color shifts and flashing.
* Once focus is set keep the lens switched to manual focus.
* Use the mirror lock-up function to eliminate vibrations caused by mirror slap.
* Shoot tethered to a computer or using a remote shutter release.
* Use a high quality tripod (and consider hanging some weight from the hook).

Depending on the how long the duration of shots may be, the camera may need to be hooked up to a AC power supply kit. This is especially true if you use "live view" settings that keep the LCD display on the back of the camera active.

Image editing software can help correct shifts that could happen in an animation or time lapse shot, but the process can be labor intensive. Obviously it's better to get the shot correct in the camera. Gusty winds or a not absolutely steady shooting platform can wreck a shot. I don't think I would try shooting a time lapse sequence from the deck of a boat!

| IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 11-14-2009 06:53 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
The Timescapes web site has a couple good time lapse videos created using the EOS 5D Mark II.

Those are kind of cool on a technical level, but how many times do the "filmmakers" think we want to see a moving starfield with a dead tree in front of it? Every shot had one thing in common: the sky was a primary focus point. Need more interesting stuff.

| IP: Logged

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-14-2009 07:22 PM

Yeah, obviously some of the camera shots were duplicates of similar shots in Baraka. Not only that, but one of the clips even used music from Baraka. Still, those sequences were well done.

It can be more difficult to shoot daylight time lapse shots because of the ever changing sun light. But there is more activity happening during the day.

| IP: Logged

Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 11-14-2009 10:47 PM

quote: Mark Ogden
It's already been done as a feature

Yes, I know, I thought that was pretty cool. Only, they had about 15 cameras, with several setups working simultaneously. Mine will have to be on one. [Smile]

As I recall, they also had alignment problems from one frame to the next, which had to be corrected in software.

quote: Bobby Henderson
Use the mirror lock-up function to eliminate vibrations caused by mirror slap.

Great! Didn't know about that feature. Thanks for all the good suggestions!

Btw, I shot some time-lapse back in the 70s on 16mm. I learned to not even attempt to compensate for exposure changes. On a sunset, for example, set it either for the twilight or the nighttime and let everything else fall where it may. The resulting smoothness was worth any temporary over or under exposure. [beer]

| IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-02-2010 06:41 PM

Okay...so my next question is about color space. What do you all use and why. sRGB or Adobe RGB. The manual speaks of Adobe RGB being for those that will extensively retouch the photos and sRGB for everyone else.

I don't know which photos will need to be retouched until after they are taken.

Why is one better than the other. What do you all use?

Steve

| IP: Logged

Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-02-2010 07:46 PM

I ended up with Adobe RGB after taking identical sample photos in both color spaces and choosing what looked best for what I was shooting.

| IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-02-2010 10:52 PM

Says the guy with the monochrome forum photo.

| IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-03-2010 11:27 PM

Okay...I'm pretty sure I'm going to go for a pair of external hard drives to store digital pictures. I have an iMac (5,1). I also want to ensure that as I change computers...that the hard drive of the computer isn't the thing I have to transfer from. I'd rather the computer's hard drive just deal with programs and such.

Any recommendations on the hard drives? Best brands, size, connection method?

Steve

| IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 12 pages: 1 2 3 ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.