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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Could 35mm ever return to mainstream cinemas? (Page 3)

 
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Author Topic: Could 35mm ever return to mainstream cinemas?
Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 05-28-2018 03:56 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The IPC class is important because it determines what standard of workmanship all those parts are assembled to.

If a circuit is assembled to Class 1 standard, solder joints are allowed to have 50% coverage and still pass. Chips and other components can be misaligned by up to 50% of the solder pad width. Stranded wires in connectors or solder joints may have up to 3 strands missing and still pass.

If it's Class 2 it is 25%. Solder joints may have up to 25% missing solder. Components may be 25% misaligned. Wires may have one strand missing.

Class 3 is 100% coverage/alignment.

So, yes, it's quite important to know so that we can estimate how long the equipment was designed to last.

If D-Cinema projectors are made to Class 3 standard, they'll probably last quite a long time. But, if they are Class 2, their lifetimes will be shorter.

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Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

- posted 05-28-2018 04:21 PM      Profile for Mitchell Dvoskin   Email Mitchell Dvoskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
> How it will play in marketing terms if a New York world premiere of a movie has to be held out at a garden variety multiplex in Paramus, New Jersey?

Probably would not make any difference. In fact, it might help as the AMC in Paramus has free parking, and presentation comparable or better than most of the surviving movie theatres in Manhattan, and Paramus has 70mm/5 perf capability should the distributor choose to take advantage of it.

What I am trying to say is that in this day and age, it does not matter where a "premier" is held, the "buzz" comes from the internet.

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Justin Hamaker
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From: Lakeport, CA USA
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- posted 05-28-2018 05:34 PM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
A neon sign with bad or broken glass units (or a bad transformer) that remains un-fixed is going to be a turn-off for other business people considering buying a neon sign.
We don't have a full neon sign. Most of what we have is just accents.

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Cobi Fox
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From: Earth
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- posted 05-28-2018 09:45 PM      Profile for Cobi Fox   Email Cobi Fox   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's funny how this thread has gone from 35mm to neon signs.

Back on topic (sort of), does anybody know if AMC still has any 35mm-equipped locations? When I went to the AMC Oakview Plaza 24 several months ago, I noticed that there was a platter installed in the booth. It couldn't have been for 70mm, because the AMC 24 was equipped only for 35mm until it finally switched to [dlp] in 2014. In fact, I think they only used analog sound in film's final years (loss of SDDS support?). I don't see why platters would still be installed if there were no 35mm projectors, possibly on standby either for special events or the possible collapse of [dlp] .

But maybe not. Perhaps AMC, being AMC, was simply too lazy to remove the platters.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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From: Lawton, OK, USA
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- posted 05-28-2018 11:24 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mitchell Dvoskin
Probably would not make any difference. In fact, it might help as the AMC in Paramus has free parking, and presentation comparable or better than most of the surviving movie theatres in Manhattan, and Paramus has 70mm/5 perf capability should the distributor choose to take advantage of it.
Even if a suburban multiplex theater is well equipped and has great presentation standards, how many of a movie production's stars would bother to show up for a gala out there? I think a lot of those red carpet events would just become a thing of the past if high profile theaters in major city centers disappear. As far as marketing buzz on the Internet goes it seems like there's every bit as much for TV shows as there is in movies. On the streaming services (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime Video) Hollywood studio movies look like they're taking a back seat to TV shows in the user interface.

quote: Justin Hamaker
We don't have a full neon sign. Most of what we have is just accents.
LED-based lighting systems are replacing many of those, especially border lighting that runs in straight lines. We visited a Harkins Theater in the Dallas Fort Worth area this past weekend. I was kind of surprised to see this theater still had exposed neon tubes mounted on the building as border/accent lighting.

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Pravin Ratnam
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From: Atlanta, GA,USA
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- posted 05-31-2018 08:57 AM      Profile for Pravin Ratnam   Email Pravin Ratnam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's dead as a mainstream format. Even the 70MM presentations of Django and Dunkirk weren't that awesome to watch in the local Atlanta multiplex I saw them at. With Dunkirk, I actually preferred the miniImax version of the movie to the 70MM when I walked into the nearby auditorium to compare mainly because the 70MM projection had a tad too much jitteriness. And I am one of those that used to seek out 70MM presentations in my younger days.

I like the vibrancy of good film capture, but that's not something possible anymore at a mainstream level. The only area where film can still hold some ground is archival simplicity even if it lacks the efficiency of digital storage.

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Leo Enticknap
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- posted 05-31-2018 09:19 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Cobi Fox
When I went to the AMC Oakview Plaza 24 several months ago, I noticed that there was a platter installed in the booth.
Most of the mainstream 'plexes I serviced left a 35mm projector and platter in at least one of the screens, in case they were ever called upon to do a 35mm show in the future. None of them have ever been used since the conversion, though, and for the places we have service contracts with, those contracts don't include the 35mm equipment.

quote: Bobby Henderson
Even if a suburban multiplex theater is well equipped and has great presentation standards, how many of a movie production's stars would bother to show up for a gala out there? I think a lot of those red carpet events would just become a thing of the past if high profile theaters in major city centers disappear.
Reminds me of the opening of Cecil B. Demented, in which a gala premiere is being held in a down-at-heel main street theater in Baltimore. As the opening credits roll, the prima donna star gushes to an interviewer about how much she admires Baltimore, but as soon as the journalist has left, snarls "Get me the f*** back to LA!".

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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- posted 05-31-2018 11:44 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's about the size of it. Movie stars and other big wigs will only show up for a screening held at a lower profile venue in a lower profile town if they want to do so.

There's two notable examples involving Lawton, Oklahoma. In 1993, the movie Geronimo: An American Legend had a premiere of sorts here in Lawton at the United Artists Cache 8 theater. The screening was actually held a couple days before its official premiere in Los Angeles. The screening was organized for a few Native American groups. None of the movie's stars attended the event. There might have been a couple of crew people there. In 2013 The Lone Ranger had its premiere in Lawton (a day before its premiere in Hollywood) at the now-closed Carmike 8 theater. Unlike the Geronimo screening, some VIPs actually attended this one: Johnny Depp, Jerry Bruckheimer and director Gore Verbinski. I think what made the latter example different is the Comanche Nation made Johnny Depp an honorary member of the tribe. Depp has visited the Lawton area a few times since then either to attend events like the Comanche Nation Fair held each September or just to hang out.

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Louis Bornwasser
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- posted 06-06-2018 11:10 AM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bobby: D Cinema has always had a 10 year design cycle. This number comes from TI. Given the smallish (not millions) market 100% replacement is marginal for the factory to sustain itself. Remember that we (users) never see the first 2 years or so; the vapor-wear phase. The next 1-2 years is the order/delivery phase so 6-8 years on a good day. If you get more than that, then the factories will suffer and leave the market. (I'm looking at YOU, SONY.)

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Monte L Fullmer
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- posted 06-06-2018 06:59 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Course, as with Carbon Arc, came Xenon, now Laser....and eventually large Video Screens to eliminate projected images totally.

Like with regular seating: out they came with wider seat gauging for the rockers slightly reducing seat count.

Now, we have recliners that are taking up space to convert big houses that had tons of seats, to big houses with 35% seat reduction.

Yet, with the reduction of seat count, yet offering more fancier seats, attendance is actually increasing per day.

Payroll can be reduced if justified with less seat count.

Thus, the old saying, "less is more" hold true.

Industry is preparing for changes due to generations, where what we know, the new generation doesn't need to know.

-Monte

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Mike Blakesley
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- posted 06-06-2018 07:20 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
Movie stars and other big wigs will only show up for a screening held at a lower profile venue in a lower profile town if they want to do so.
When the Prince movie "Under the Cherry Moon" was coming out, there was a contest to have the premiere in your hometown, with Prince in attendance. The winner was from Sheridan, Wyoming, which has a population of about 8000. I believe it was the first time a movie ever played on the break in Sheridan, which had just one single-screen theater at the time.

I thought sure Prince would weasel out of being there, but he was there. I'm sure he had a delightful time. [Roll Eyes]

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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From: Lawton, OK, USA
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- posted 06-06-2018 08:55 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There's not all that much in Sheridan, but it's not far away from some nice, mountainous scenery. But, yeah, if I had to guess Prince probably flew in and out of town via the county airport pretty fast.
[Big Grin]

A few of my relatives live farther east off I-90 in Gillette. The terrain is a lot flatter there. But they're just an hour's drive from the Close Encounters mountain.

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Marcel Birgelen
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From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
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- posted 06-11-2018 03:22 PM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brad Miller
What shitty theaters were you patronizing?
Only the very best obviously. [Wink]

But before we get all nostalgic, what was the average quality of the AMC around the corner in the height of 35mm distribution? Besides on opening day, before they ran their print through the grinder, the quality was acceptable, maybe... But beyond that, I'm sure the average digital presentation looks better now.

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Bobby: D Cinema has always had a 10 year design cycle. This number comes from TI. Given the smallish (not millions) market 100% replacement is marginal for the factory to sustain itself. Remember that we (users) never see the first 2 years or so; the vapor-wear phase. The next 1-2 years is the order/delivery phase so 6-8 years on a good day. If you get more than that, then the factories will suffer and leave the market. (I'm looking at YOU, SONY.)
I'm not too afraid of companies leaving this sector. It could actually open it up further. Besides copy protection, there really isn't much what is preventing us from using the gear everybody else does.

There will always be projectors, the development of massive LED screens will continue. With proper knowledge, there is no reason why a big venue projector could not be used for cinema presentations for example.

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Like with regular seating: out they came with wider seat gauging for the rockers slightly reducing seat count.
Now, we have recliners that are taking up space to convert big houses that had tons of seats, to big houses with 35% seat reduction.

Yet, with the reduction of seat count, yet offering more fancier seats, attendance is actually increasing per day.

Payroll can be reduced if justified with less seat count.
The movie exhibition business has always seen change. The single biggest constant has been 35mm film, but there always have been improvements. Not everything sticked around for long but many changes didn't go unnoticed.

As long as the movie industry keeps on improving and as long as it keeps delivering experiences better than you can have at home, it will continue to exist. I have my doubt about recliners, but more comfortable seating is most definitely something that has to be expected. Nobody will accept a hard, wooden seat anymore.

As for image and sound, there are still many mountains to climb there, before we reach the absolute maximum attainable, so there is still room for an almost endless number of iterations of new and improved technology there.

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Jack Ondracek
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- posted 06-11-2018 06:51 PM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Marcel Birgelen
before we get all nostalgic, what was the average quality of the AMC around the corner in the height of 35mm distribution?
Our local (GCC turned) AMC was the only union house in our county. They also had the only Cinemeccanica projectors in the area. As far as I know, projection quality was never an issue there.

The rest of us were running variants of XLs, Brenkerts and Ballentyne VIPs. The Brenkerts and XLs did a pretty decent job (mostly). There's nothing to say about the VIPs that hasn't already been expressed here with vivid color.

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Pravin Ratnam
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From: Atlanta, GA,USA
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- posted 06-14-2018 09:58 PM      Profile for Pravin Ratnam   Email Pravin Ratnam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What seems underutilized is the flexibility of digital showings in the bigger screens. I wanted to see Avengers on a big sscreen and because of Deadpool 2 , it was already showong on the secondary screen by the third week. With 35MM, I understand it would not be as easy to swap screenings, But with digital, how tough would it have been to still show Avengers a couple of Liemax showings a week during off peak times and this way, extend the time people can enjoy a blockbuster on a big screen?

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