Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Could 35mm ever return to mainstream cinemas?

my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Community » Film-Yak » Could 35mm ever return to mainstream cinemas? (Page 5)

This topic comprises 6 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6

Author

Topic: Could 35mm ever return to mainstream cinemas?

Timothy Eiler
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 126
From: Litchfield , Minnesota, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-22-2018 03:35 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
We did all of that with reel-to-reel cinemas.

I was working a a twin with both screens reel to reel. And Orc model 1000 lamphouse. One went down so i had to shuffle the lamp house around to keep booth screen going.

| IP: Logged

Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-23-2018 06:40 AM

"aren't the KDM's tired to a specific media block/projector"
I believe locking a KDM to a projector is possible but that has not been used - yet.
The info sheet from Technicolor for KDMs asks what projector model you have, the software version it's using, and capability (2K/4K, cinelink, etc). They certainly need the server model and serial number, but ask nothing about the projector serials.
So you could swap servers between screens if you really want to play around with whatever restrictions a distributor gave you.
Not so easy with integrated servers or IMB servers though.

| IP: Logged

Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 08-23-2018 08:26 AM

I wonder what happens when you put your Alchemy IMS into a NEC projector. [Wink]

| IP: Logged

Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 08-23-2018 10:50 AM

quote: Bobby Henderson
That's about the size of it. Movie stars and other big wigs will only show up for a screening held at a lower profile venue in a lower profile town if they want to do so.

I'm just reading this thread for the first time. Just wanted to add that when I worked at the GCC Mission Bay Plaza in Boca Raton, FL back in high school, we had two "movie stars" visit. Jim Belushi showed up to secretly watch Curly Sue from the back to see the audience reaction and Judge Reinhold watched part of Baby on Board secretly as well. For the staff that interacted with them, I was told Belushi was really nice and Reinhold "not so much." I was actually working on both occasions but wasn't in the lobby when they came in and I didn't want to bother them just to say I met such hugely important people!

| IP: Logged

Cobi Fox
Film Handler

Posts: 26
From: Earth
Registered: May 2018

posted 08-23-2018 08:59 PM

quote: Jim Cassedy
Oddly enough- - In the last month, I've had two SF theater owners ask me
what it would take to "put 35mm back in" to at least one auditorium at
each location.

I'm guessing they're art houses/repertoire theaters? Those seem to have the biggest demand for 35mm equipment.

Or has hell frozen over, and they're multiplexes that want to re-install 35mm?

| IP: Logged

Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 08-23-2018 09:23 PM

quote: Dave Macaulay
I believe locking a KDM to a projector is possible but that has not been used - yet.

Sorry to drag this OT, but a few months ago we received instructions from NEC to the effect that whenever we install a projector, update its firmware, or swap out any of cards in the card cage, we should use the read cert tool to download a projector cert, and then send it to NEC. I presume this is to ensure that their records are up to date, and that they can issue correct public key certificates, in the event that KDMs do start to be locked to a specific ICP and media block combo. I'm not aware of any similar instructions having been issued by any of the other projector manufacturers, though.

| IP: Logged

Brent Francis
Film Handler

Posts: 84
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Nov 2008

posted 08-24-2018 02:08 PM

"we STILL have people who don't know we've switched"

...sigh...

Saw an old Hollywood studio feature on the weekend. Looked like it was run off a DVD, but people were raving about the picture on the way out.

| IP: Logged

Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-24-2018 02:47 PM

When we were mostly film, many people assumed we were DVD. Now we get DCP's clearly made from a DVD/Bluray source, and people still can't tell the difference. I suspect that, even with all of their home movie theatres, the viewing public is overwhelmingly indifferent the the medium and could not tell the difference without you pointing it out.
We have a festival tomorrow in which one if the films is a DVD of a video probably made from a television print. Betting no one says a word. It will just "look like an old movie" to the public.

| IP: Logged

Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 08-24-2018 04:36 PM

quote: Martin McCaffery
I suspect that, even with all of their home movie theatres, the viewing public is overwhelmingly indifferent the the medium and could not tell the difference without you pointing it out.

This has always been my contention. As long as you have a good quality image on the screen, the average person wouldn't know the difference between 4k and 2k digital or film. Even if they did know they likely wouln't care.

| IP: Logged

Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-24-2018 08:54 PM

Which leads to the conclusion they come for the experience, not the technology.

| IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-25-2018 11:34 AM

There are limits to everything. The trick is finding those limits. How small can you make the image? How far can you roll back the sound (mono?) How accurate do the colors need to be or the illumination level? How good do the acoustics have to be? How good do the chairs have to be? How about the carpet? Duct tape okay for repairs?

At what point do you NOTICE you are losing business and not just blame the product or other forms of entertainment?

Part of the "experience" IS the technology and the manner in which it is presented. Some things are more obvious than others (BIG screen). Some are less so (7.1 versus 5.1 audio, depends on the movie a bit too).

However, I think cinemas have made the experience too pedestrian to the point that the average consumer is only equating the cinema experience as the first opportunity to see the movie. They'll get the same or better experience at home.

I think we took a major step away from the presentation side when we stopped using curtains and making a movie a show. It changed the entire experience from one of a professional show to a pedestrian one. The screen became something to put things on instead of that magical piece of equipment that turned into a window. Now we don't even mask the image, leaving dead screen...just like at home. Our sound systems rarely challenge the home version. The home quality bar has risen there. If you put in 4K now, you are merely keeping up with the home technology. There is no marquee value there.

I think for cinemas to survive, they really need to look at the cinema experience from top-to-bottom from the moment someone decides that they want to go out to the moment they return home and see how they can make the cinema a good choice worth repeating.

| IP: Logged

Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 08-25-2018 01:34 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
I think for cinemas to survive, they really need to look at the cinema experience from top-to-bottom from the moment someone decides that they want to go out to the moment they return home and see how they can make the cinema a good choice worth repeating.

I think this is what's happening in many theatres with things like large format screens, luxury seating, and more. I agree with you about losing the masking, but that seems like such a small piece of the equation compared to the rest of the experience. Of course this is subjective.

However, price is one of the main complaints about going to the movies, and all of these "upgrades" cost money and drive-up ticket prices. I'm not sure where the proper balance is.

My location is 22 years old and the primary upgrades we need is new seats. We don't really receive many comments about the experience beyond the seats. We are also talking about a large format screen. I'm not fully convinced this is a good idea. When we do have a large format title, I'm not sure customers will go for the higher prices and not having an option for a regular option.

| IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-25-2018 04:31 PM

It isn't a small price. People are staring at that screen for the longest time they are in the business...and THAT is the place people compromise on. Masking doesn't cost that much and it finishes the presentation (once the curtain parts).

People ALWAYS complain about price...always have. Even in the 80s they did (or whenever you started). The fact remains, a movie ticket costs a minimum wage worker just under 2-hours work...which has been true for as long as I've been in the business.

The digital technology, for cinemas, is a huge cost for zero increase in ticket sales and it keeps wanting to be fed. We replaced $10K projectors with $35K, by and large and replaced 50-year items with 15 year items. And now Samsung would like you to spend $500K+ on a movie screen that compromises sound.

So you put in a PLF theatre...what is premium about it? It is the SAME movie that is in the other theatres. Quite often, the SAME resolution. Is it just the bigger screen (and I'm not discounting the bigger screen). In the film days, a big theatre used to mean that it ran something like 70mm that had inherent advantages to the alternative.

Now, if the PLF theatres had 8K/16K images (and movies shot for them), then I could see what the whoopdedo is about.

Is it the sound? Atmos is scalable down to a 20'x20' room. There is nothing inherently PLF about Atmos...in fact, I'm putting it into my home theatre (and again, consumers can too though in a more reduced fashion).

I do think a big screen can bring a certain factor in, particularly if it is W I D E though DCPs are anti-wide. They made Scope the little format [Roll Eyes]

| IP: Logged

Cobi Fox
Film Handler

Posts: 26
From: Earth
Registered: May 2018

posted 11-04-2018 12:45 PM

Sort of off-topic (though more on-topic than neon signs were), but I was at the local AMC, and I believe I saw a platter in the port window. There also appeared to be two projector consoles side by side. Was it common for multiplexes to keep at least one 35mm system installed after conversion to D-Cinema? This location went digital in 2014, and no 70mm was installed at a later date for the 70mm revival. So it has to be one of the original 35mm systems. Does anybody know why they would've kept it?

| IP: Logged

Mike Spaeth
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1129
From: Marietta, GA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 11-04-2018 02:35 PM

Yeah. If you have extra space in the booth it's cheaper than removal and disposal.

| IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 6 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.