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This topic comprises 8 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8 
 
Author Topic: The CAP code
John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-19-2000 12:16 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, then, how about this; Record one reel of a feature (R1 would probably be a good choice) and send it to John P. Ask him to send you the print number.

But don't torture the guy if he won't; he may not be allowed to. Also, just because he worked on it's development, doesn't mean he still has access to it.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-19-2000 12:34 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not targeting John directly at all. Perhaps he has current involvement, perhaps he does not. Nowhere have I implied one way or the other or that he should personally perform a demonstration. I'm speaking in general.

Still though, with the panic printing that typically goes on, when would the labs have the time to apply this so-called code to each individual print? Many prints aren't even steady or have a correctly printed digital track...and I'm to believe they can print this microscopic code on each individual print? No. What a joke!

I'm not asking for an explanation of how this miracle code works, just a demonstration. Such a demonstration would NOT give away it's secrets, just prove that it works. I'm fairly certain the people responsible for this CAP code are aware of this thread, or will be very soon. If it REALLY worked, then this request would be no problem and should be viewed as an excellent method to prove to people not to mess with the CAP guys. Think about it, those professional bootleggers are getting their prints from either a manager or a projectionist, right? Is there a better forum for such a demonstration?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-19-2000 03:23 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
CAP Code does not add any time to the production process. There is an extra charge to the distributor, however, so some features are not coded. When CAP Code is used, each print has a unique code, even if there are thousands of prints.

Brad: Please trust me on this, CAP Code has been used on hundreds of thousands of prints since 1982, and has often been of help in tracing the source of pirated copies. If you are showing a print that has CAP Code, and someone shoots a video of it that ends up in the MPAA's hands, they will trace it to your print.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Carl Welles
Film Handler

Posts: 82
From: Cali
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-19-2000 04:34 PM      Profile for Carl Welles   Email Carl Welles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I really don't care HOW this CAP CODE works. But just having somebody tell me that it exists is kinda pointless! I mean if Mr. John Pytlak comes and says "Don't copy movies because of the CAP code" am I just supposed to take his word? I value Mr. Pytlak's input to this forum and all, but this just seems a bit suspicious to me.

If indeed the CAP guys allowed a demonstration where random tapes were sent in, and they could say "Tape #1 was print #xxx" I would be absolutely convinced that it was real. But Mr. Pytlak keeps dodging the proposal. Why? This leads me to believe that it is not real.

Maybe it should be called the CRAP CODE.

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-19-2000 06:31 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thinking this through logicaly CAP code would never be used as evidence in a case because then it would have to be explained completely. I'm sure it is used to narrow down ones list of suspects, at which point gathering additional evidence is very easy.

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Tyler Skinner
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 115
From: Pa
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 04-19-2000 07:14 PM      Profile for Tyler Skinner   Email Tyler Skinner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Why would you want to tape a movie off of a screen or telecine a release print anyway??
better copies can be found before it even hits theaters. I think Studios should be more concerned about Avid and Workprint tapes being snuck out, all of which ARE coded and will be traced back to the original owner. These are the ones that are more valuable to bootleggers, not the shitty cam-copies with people getting up in front of the camera and talking.
What they do is take these master tapes and put them on VCD, and dupe them to hell. No quality loss, and many times its not even the final cut so it has more footage than the release version.

I say more power to them. Just reminds me of how I just heard Lucas is now preparing a DVD of Phantom Menace. No, he wouldn't release this on DVD after everyone already bought the VHS. He's more concerned with what the viewers want, not with making money.... and a few kids sold a VHS copy of EP1 for 10 bucks, maybe making $500 tops? Oh NO!!!!


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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-19-2000 09:16 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As far as piracy goes, I would think that studio people aren't really sitting there saying to themselves, "We've got to stop EVERY LAST person who makes a copy of a movie... We have to wring EVERY LAST penny from the pockets of the people." (Okay, they probably do want every last cent )

What I think it's all about is that if they let one little guy who copies a video go free then they have less leverage to bust the really big pirates. It's like Copyrights... If you don't defend yourself, you might lose your right to defend yourself in the future. (All facial tissues are called "Kleenex" now)

I don't think Lucas is sitting somewhere fretting over some scumbag sitting in a movie theatre with a Handy Cam. However, If he finds out about one of these creeps, he's sure to bust him. If he doesn't he could get himself into the position where some REALLY big creep who's making a whole shitload of copies could say, "But, you didn't bust So-and-So"

Okay, I oversimplify... but I think you get the point.

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Carl Welles
Film Handler

Posts: 82
From: Cali
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-19-2000 10:40 PM      Profile for Carl Welles   Email Carl Welles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There will ALWAYS be piracy, no matter what anybody says. Why? Because the pirates can crack any code. Look at what they've done with DVD already.

The pirates are smarter than the people who come up with the anti-piracy schemes. They always have been. Right Mr. Pytlak? Just look at what the pirates have to work with, and then look at what the people who come up with the anti-piracy schemes have to work with. Amazing what the pirates have done. Yup, they are definitely smarter.

Even if the CRAP CODE is real, it in no way prevents piracy. A dub would have to fall into the hands of the correct people for anything to happen. And I assume most pirates would only sell to people they trust. So therefore the CRAP CODE is completely ineffective, unless you try to sell Jack Valenti a copy of a coded flick.

And anyway, I think most pirates would be careful enough to copy somebody else's print, so that place gets in trouble and the real pirate is never found. Remember, they are indeed smarter.

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Martin Frandsen
Master Film Handler

Posts: 270
From: Denmark, Europe
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-20-2000 04:44 AM      Profile for Martin Frandsen   Email Martin Frandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The studios have a right to 'protect' there material against 'illegal' copys made of the films.

I beleave John Pytlak when he tells us that the CAP code does work, but understand why he dosen't want to tell us how it works. We don't need to no anyway, right?

Yes it might be the small white dots along the frame line that shows up once and a while, i been wondering what they are for

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It's the new small talk. You do it so awfully well! - My Fair Lady

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-20-2000 05:50 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Carl:

When a "street seller" of pirated videos is busted, the videos are analyzed by the MPAA. CAP Code allows them to know which print was illegally copied to make the video master. CAP Code doesn't prevent piracy, it only helps PROSECUTE it by tracing it to its source.

Even if a pirate copies "someone else's print" (i.e., at your theatre), YOU are held accountable for the security of that print. If you allowed someone to videotape your print, YOU are considered an accomplice.

There are a lot of "smart" film pirates in federal prison. Others have lost everything they own in fines and civil action. As I said, with billions of dollars in revenue at stake, the MPAA is VERY AGGRESSIVE in prosecuting film piracy.

Brad:
Yes, the position of a lab splice would be kind of a "fingerprint". But it would be too easy to circumvent by adding a few more random splices. Sorry, we dismissed that idea 20 years ago.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Mark Tan-Wanklyn
Film Handler

Posts: 2
From: Singapore
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 04-20-2000 08:42 AM      Profile for Mark Tan-Wanklyn   Author's Homepage   Email Mark Tan-Wanklyn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John recently said
quote:
When CAP Code is used, each print has a unique code, even if there are thousands of prints. <Snip> If you are showing a print that has CAP Code, and someone shoots a video of it that ends up in the MPAA's hands, they will trace it to your print.

What about the time factor, any identifying mark on the film only proved that the illegal copy came from that print. Prints move all over the country, therefore it doesn't prove what cinema allowed the duplicate to be made.

Mark

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-20-2000 10:26 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It would be interesting to see how it would standup in court if the method could not be placed up for scrutiny.
I know that in canada the Library's and stores had to post where the antitheft devices were in books and even TV cameras have to be clearly identifiable to stand up as evidence in court

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-20-2000 11:30 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
CAP Code uniquely identifies the particular print that was the source for the pirated copy. Since the print passes through multiple hands (lab, shipment to film exchange, film exchange, shipment to theatre, multiple theatres, etc.) in its lifetime, additional evidence is usually needed to convict. CAP Code is primarily used to identify areas requiring further investigation. If the prints at a particular theatre have a pattern of showing up as pirated videos, it raises suspicion and gets attention. If the prints handled by a certain trucking company show up as pirated videos, they come under suspicion.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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David Koegel
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Alexandria, VA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-20-2000 01:06 PM      Profile for David Koegel   Email David Koegel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Then presumably, CAP is also used to figure out the source of prints that end up on the collector's market as well, right?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-20-2000 01:55 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David:

CAP Code uniquely identifies the print for its lifetime. So yes, the source of a collector's print could be identified even if all other identification (e.g., leaders) were removed.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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