Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » The CAP code (Page 4)

 
This topic comprises 8 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8 
 
Author Topic: The CAP code
John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-26-2000 05:44 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott is correct. AFAIK, as it is now configured, a video taken of an image projected using a DLP Cinema projector will not have the flicker seen when using a camcorder to photograph a normal 24fps film presentation from a theatre screen. Piracy is a major concern with digital cinema, and the SMPTE DC28 Digital Cinema Committee has a large team of experts developing encryption and "watermarking" technology.

The links to the MPAA, FBI and INTERPOL were in JEST!!! The specific questions being raised by Brad and others may be of help to pirates, and "inquiring minds" do NOT need to know the answers to them.

Any portion of a film having CAP Code is tracable. It is not restricted to the titles or credits. The CAP Code is placed on...oops, there's that smell again...aseinfgetr slkde[a ha;sfdnrip rega/;nfk;wtw aahalja ljrhtinf okfj;ihpn fha[ramtz

Excuse me, Mr. Pytlak seems to have had a slight fainting spell again. Good bye. Mr. Vee.


 |  IP: Logged

Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-26-2000 08:25 AM      Profile for Paul Konen   Email Paul Konen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Why wouldn't DLP also have the flicker? They (TI) have stated that they project at 24fps so they are beating to hell the little mirrors by flipping them so much. It is not a constant image that is being displayed.

Also, I don't believe that anyone could take the DVD that the DLP movie comes on because of the needed QuVis player to decode each and every frame.

I know that when TS-2 came to our theatre that TI came in within the first week and added a "watermark" to the print to identify where it came from.

 |  IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-26-2000 08:57 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul:

I'm NOT an expert on the DLP Cinema technology. But AFAIK, although the image on the TI DLP projector is refreshed 24 times per second, there is no blanking interval as might be found on a CRT display. With 24fps film projection using a 2-blade or 3-blade shutter, the flicker comes from the 48Hz or 72Hz frequency of the projector shutter not matching the frame/field rate of the camcorder.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-26-2000 02:25 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, maybe I'm just a moron, but what does "AFAIK" mean? It appears in many of John's posts. John has a few others as well.

Translation glossary, please!

As Far As I Know?

 |  IP: Logged

Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-26-2000 02:45 PM      Profile for Paul Konen   Email Paul Konen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, AFAIK is for "As far as I know" just like IMHO is "In My Humble Opinion"

John, thanks for the clarification, that makes for sense.

Paul.

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-26-2000 03:43 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok John, you've not answered the questions, but you did not dodge them this time. Instead you gave us the basic "I cannot answer these for it might help bootleggers", which is absolutely fine. Hey, it IS an answer, and it is obviously honest.

I'll make one last point...just 'cause. So for the sake of this argument, we're going to say that the almighty CAP code has been placed on every single second of every single reel of the next big movie this year. Now, let's say that these codes are completely traceable, even on a 10th generation VHS dupe! Let's also go a bit further to say that the MPAA is going to catch this crook or die in the process. So, how do they expect to catch anyone when the depots randomly slap prints into unlabeled cans, stack them a mile high and THEN wander around slapping the stickers on them containing the destination theater and print number? Huh? How about that one? I think the MPAA might be taking those numbers on the print boxes a little bit for granted, as I know of three depots for sure that do NOT pay any attention to them, and I'm sure there are more.

Now, here is my question that I would actually like for John to answer. Who can I get into contact with to get a demo? Again, if this is so almighty and powerful, such a test would certainly strike fear into would be bootleggers and would be projectionists who would allow such an illegal action to take place at their theater. I stress again, no one has to say "how" on any aspect, just provide the print numbers and theaters the print came from. Note: these will be first run original prints and not hand me down prints for the test. I'm sure I can easily get 10 anonymous Film-Techers to assist with the demo. It will be done fairly.

 |  IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-26-2000 04:56 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad:

If a feature has CAP Code, precise print tracking is part of the package, and is mandated for labs, shippers, and exchanges. Special handling and tracking is involved.

You can try contacting the MPAA to arrange a "test". But they will be very suspicious of why "inquiring minds want to know". Decoding the videos does cost money too, so it is not something done on a whim or for curiosity.

Again, I know CAP Code has been successfully used to investigate and prosecute film piracy for 18 years. Distributors wouldn't pay for it unless it worked. IMHO, that's the best "proof" that CAP Code is effective.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

 |  IP: Logged

Peter Eaves
Film Handler

Posts: 8
From: Burbank, California, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 04-26-2000 05:26 PM      Profile for Peter Eaves   Email Peter Eaves   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello all.... a newbie here ! :-)

For what it's worth, I can assure you all that what John has been saying is very true! CAP has been succesfully used for many years.


 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-27-2000 01:59 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Wouldn't a big movie like Toy Story 2 be CAP coded? If so, then why was it when I broke down one print for pickup, I was told "after the fact" that I was to break the other print down. When I asked why, I was told "actually it doesn't matter. Just put that print in the other cans."

Uh huh. Yeah, the depots really care. I think too many variables are being taken for granted. It's things like this along with no documentation I've ever seen in terms of PROOF that make me continue to believe this is nothing more than a big scare tactic.

Ever hear of the saying "if it sounds too good to be true, it is"?

 |  IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-27-2000 05:40 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Peter:

Welcome to Film-Tech! Hope you can spread the word about this site to your fellow engineers and technicians at the labs in LA.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

 |  IP: Logged

Carl Welles
Film Handler

Posts: 82
From: Cali
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-27-2000 06:08 AM      Profile for Carl Welles   Email Carl Welles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I get that all the time from Technicolor. "No problem, just swap the cans."

Why do I get the feeling Mr. Vee is really Mr. Jack "V"alenti? I'll bet he's got John tied to a chair right now.

This whole thread is turning into some kind of internet dodge ball with Mr. Pytlak as the captain. No one who claims to have any actual knowledge is providing any proof or is even willing to help set up a demo in any form. Sure anyone can come here and post "I know it works", but big deal! I could come here and post that same statement and as far as anyone is concerned, people would think I actually know what I am talking about.

The CAP code is a bullshit threat. I wonder how many people really believe in this Santa Claus story?

(No offense to Mr. Pytlak. Outside of this thread he provides invaluable assistance to everyone here and it is much appreciated.)

 |  IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-27-2000 07:35 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Carl:

Providing any specific information to "inquiring minds" risks compromising the effectiveness. It's as simple as that.

As far as running a "demonstration" with the MPAA, it would be like Saddam Hussein asking Israel if he could launch a few scud missles with "dummy" warheads at them to test their defenses and better understand how to defeat them.

Another analogy would be protecting your own home against burglary. Who in their right mind would tell potential burglars their address and when they will be away on vacation, along with details about their home security system? Or let a potential burglar test their security system a few times to see if they can find a way to defeat it?

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

 |  IP: Logged

John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-27-2000 09:35 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, I feel JP has given us several good clues. Based on what most of already know about film distribution, if you just do a little detective work on your own, you could probably figure much of it out.

Of course, I don't know exact deatils. But I believe I know how it works in a general sense; at least enough to satisfy my curiosity.

Besides, if we know, where's the fun? Suppose we all found out that Area 51 is just where the Army peels potatoes? Or if Bob Dylan said; "My lyrics don't mean anything. I was really just stoned when I wrote them...!"

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-27-2000 02:27 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think a demo would reveal anything at all. Just that it indeed works (or not). They would just have to tell us which theatre each tape came from. That's all. Nothing more? Shall I repeat that? Of course, if the MPAA wants piracy to continue, I can see why they wouldn't provide a demo. Maybe that is the case? Otherwise I would think that they would do everything and anything to prevent copying in the first place. That's the idea, isn't it?

I wonder if the CRAP CODE can be detected on MPEG Video CD's? Given the absolute horrible quality and resolution of MPEG, would it still be able to be deciphered?

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-27-2000 03:18 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Supposedly from things I've heard years ago, you can take a 10th generation VHS videotape and they can still track it. Geez, like I said it would have to be pretty DAMN obvious for a dupe of that low quality to reveal anything.

John, no one has asked how it works, a demonstration where the MPAA would provide the print number and the originating theater would NOT in any way give out even a hint of how the CAP code works. Nothing more would need to be said on their end for such an effective demo. Hence the fact my beliefs are virtually being proven right here that it is a joke.

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 8 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.