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This topic comprises 8 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8 
 
Author Topic: The CAP code
Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 04-30-2000 09:46 AM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>You forgot to mention that anyone wanting to actually use that trick to try and locate a difference would have to dupe 2 prints on the SAME projector and without moving the camera (on a tripod of course). <<

Brad: Actually, I was thinking of telecine-transferred prints. With a good program like Media Studio, you only have to make slight x-y corrections to put the images in perfect register (which isn't hard to do). A home video camera would not fit the bill, even if you could keep it steady, because its pickup of the shutter frequency would render the elements unuseable.

But if anyone wanted to locate (i.e. prove/disprove the existence of) a visual code, this method would reveal it by underscoring the dissimilarities between two prints.

Wait! I can hear the questions already: "But what about bootleg movies shot with handheld cameras? Huhhhhh?!" Given that there's a code to begin with, I'm not implying that this is how the CAP people decipher the data. They already know where to look, we don't. This would show us.

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Better Projection Pays!

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-30-2000 06:24 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Chris has a very good point. Most of the boothlegs that I have seen have come from China. They are readilly available in the US, and the movies are completely in English, just like at the theatre. Some are even in stereo.

Many of these movies are available on VHS, but more seem to be on Video CD (MPEG). The Video CD versions can also be downloaded from the internet.

It is amazing that this hasn't been stopped.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-01-2000 05:45 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All information and technology for CAP Code was transferred to the MPAA in 1982. You need to contact them for any specific information or a "demonstration": Motion Picture Association, 15503 Ventura Boulevard, Encino, California, 91436.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene

Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-01-2000 12:02 PM      Profile for Dave Williams   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is my input on the CAP code, based upon all those years of chemical engineering and physics classes I took for no good reason:

1. The assertion was made that maybe the sound is altered to reveal the cap code. It is possible to do so as there are frequencies that are not distinguishable to the human ear, HOWEVER, microphones cannot pick these up at all! So thats a bust.

2. It is however possible to encode the image of every frame on every print. How you ask? There are frequencies of light that you cannot see, infrared being one of them, but not the only one. You can encode just about anything you want to on to a frame of film with different light frequencies that are not able to show up on the film image, but are there none the less. When you scan the image into a computer (you must use a medical or scientific type scanner, not available on the general market of course) you can view certain frequencies and see whatever it was that you put on there.

The PROBLEM with this is, that even with the greatest of video cameras on the market today, and those that have been with us for years now, have very little ability to pick these frequencies up. It is possible to make this work however. Cheap copies made with poor quality camcorders will not be able to pick up these freqencies, however the good copies, made with high tech transfers just may be able to transfer the image not seen as well.

This is one way that CAP could be applied, and make it real, and possibly even traceable.

Then again, It could be just a really good hoax!

Dave

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"If it's not worth doing, I have allready been there and done it"

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 05-01-2000 02:54 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can't go for the infra-red theory. Video cameras will not record much (if any) infra-red, and remember the techonolgy was finished in 1982, when home cameras were very poor (compaired to today.) Besides, several projectors have infra-red filters on them to reduce the heat on the film (a Century JJ for one.) I'd have to check, but I think even regular port window glass would reduce infra-red.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-01-2000 03:55 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Video cameras won't record IR? Point any remote control you have at your camera and press any button. You will see the IR without any problem.

John, as you said before, anyone contacting the MPAA about such a test would make them suspicious. That's why YOU need to tell them for us. They trust you.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 05-01-2000 07:24 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, you're right. Pointed my digital (still) camera at an infra-red "exciter" lamp, and there it was.

But would it bounce off of a screen to a camera?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-02-2000 12:55 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Possibly, but then it would be plainly visible. They should do something similar to that, and it would make any video dub absolutely useless. Why not stop piracy altogether instead of just trying to capture a select few guys?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-02-2000 06:40 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John (Pytlak):

Have you seen those new digital (DV) cameras that supposedly capture non- interlaced images at a true 24 fps? After they are on the computer, they can be output at 30fps and look just like a movie transfer to VHS (or whatever).

Does this pose a threat?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-02-2000 11:22 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Shoot, I can tell you that will be an incredible threat to piracy! A true non-interlaced camera (like the Canon DV XL1) will capture 30 images per second instead of 60 (referring to fields). One that can shoot non-interlaced images at true 24 frames per second will only require the camera be pointed at the screen, regardless of the projector or shutter blades.

It just never ends! Kinda like this topic.

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Scott Magie
Film Handler

Posts: 73
From: St. Albans, VT USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-03-2000 01:44 AM      Profile for Scott Magie   Email Scott Magie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What a disappointment!
I've been watching this thread grow and grow without ever checking it out. It burst into flames and I still didn't check it out. Finally, tonight my curiosity got the better of me. I just wasted an hour of my life reading 84 posts and learning nothing! This is like an epic film gone bad. No... a Jerry Springer episode gone bad. No... Dateline! No...

Maybe I'm not an inquiring mind, but I could care less if the MPAA could play a pirated video in reverse & have it say, "Bow to Satan". As long as I get a print that's heads-out, I'm happy. Piracy's gonna happen. Period. And I say, more power to 'em. If they want to go through all that trouble and risk the rath of "Mr. Vee", so be it. I see my movies for free, so what would I want some crappy vhs copy for? This CAP code thing, be it real or not, is just something to keep honest people honest... kinda like those locks on the poster-cases!

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Scott A. Magie

scoooot@hotmail.com
"Anybody wanna peanut?"

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Carl Welles
Film Handler

Posts: 82
From: Cali
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-03-2000 03:00 AM      Profile for Carl Welles   Email Carl Welles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's the principle of it all. Some believe anything they are told, others will only accept what sounds feasible to them. So you spent an hour reading 84 posts. What did you learn? You learned this CAP code thing is hogwash. I agree with you, pirates will always be out there and they will always find a way around anything. I don't really think anyone here would plan on bootlegging a movie because we can all get in to see the films whenever we want for free. Why in the hell would we want a video or want any part of it? Again, it's the principle of being threatened and being lied to. I don't ever expect for someone to post the big secret here behind the CAP code, but if was real then I'm sure someone who works in a lab or has contacts at the MPAA could have set up a demo by now that was proposed some 50 posts ago. We are being lied to!

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-03-2000 06:04 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Carl:

CAP Code is real, it has been in use for 18 years, and it is effective. That is the simple TRUTH.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Carl Welles
Film Handler

Posts: 82
From: Cali
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-03-2000 02:18 PM      Profile for Carl Welles   Email Carl Welles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh OK! I gotcha now, John. What was I thinking? Thanks for straightening me out with your last post there. If that wasn't convincing, nothing is!

Seriously, I don't think that the THREAT of the CAP code is preventing any piracy here. You're gonna have to do a better job than that, John.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-03-2000 02:30 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I tell you what I know to be true. For more information or a "demonstration", you will have to deal directly with the Motion Picture Association, on your own.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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