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Author Topic: What Projectors do you Like? Per Hauberg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 883 From: Malling, Denmark Registered: Jul 2000 posted 06-29-2003 03:06 PM                        quote: Why did you buy an auto lens turret anyway? It is a waste of money for a 2-screen. I DIDN'T ! - Of course, i listened to my brave german/american adviser ! quote: I did hear enough about the electronic turret to ask for a manual one from start, but i may also be asking to chance for single lens holder --but the hand-turned turret is still in my way ! Right there, in midst of my enthusiasm for those Germering-people, i'm so disappointed, they can't do, what they've done in Milan for 35 years... I can't find a picture of the single-lens holder anywhere - anybody got one to post, please ? p.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-29-2003 03:10 PM                     Excuse me, but did I read this correctly regarding Kinoton's turrets? quote: You need a laptop, Kinoton software, and several hundred dollars worth of test adapter dongles to test/ calibrate/set-up the thing. What??? What exactly is all of that nonsense required to accomplish? We are speaking about lens turrets, right?  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-29-2003 03:26 PM                        Per--check out the pics of "Wellesley College Collins Cinema" for some shots of a pair of single-lens FP30s. The lens holders are great and, unlike Century and Simplex lens collars, register very precisely, so you will almost never need to tweak the focus after swapping lenses, assuming that they were mounted in the collars correctly. Unfortunately, the Kinoton lens holders are apparently very expensive and don't easily fit into a standard Neumade lens cabinet. I think you'll eventually like the FP30, though I agree that it has some annoying quirks that should have been fixed by its designers. The on-screen picture is fantastic, though.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 06-29-2003 05:10 PM                        Per - try the Kinton website. Brad - it is true, the lens turrets are a bit too touchy, but you don`t really need all that. You can align them with a multimeter (see the manuals), or with the little board in the picture I posted 1 page earlier. The Kinoton engineers have a program that is supposed to make it easier and more precise. You do not really need it though. The reason they have it, is that an independent Berlin engineer/installer has invented a very clever measurement interface that you can mount a notebook on. It has adapters and connections for about every piece of cinema hardware. So Kinoton decided to buy it for their technicians and they use the software alignment because it is so practical and you don`t have to play around with the board and other equipment...  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-29-2003 06:16 PM                     First off...I sell a TON of Neumade LC-2 lens cabinets and they fit both Kinoton and Simplex lens holders just fine! Kinoton offfers both 101.6mm and 70.6mm lens holders. For a typical two-lens situation, neither is so costly as to be prohibitive but more than the typical American collar. For the 70.6mm lens holder, check the Pictures Forum here on Film-Tech and look up the South Branch Cinema 6. South Branch Pictures These pictures show the last of the older style lens holder...the current ones only have a single clamp instead of the three. The new ones are more suited to today's shorter lenses. With the old ones, you needed to know the focal length of the lens when ordering in order to get the correct (higher priced) one. Here are some more current lens holders...first the 70.6mm...holding God's gift to anamorphics...the Blue-Star by ISCO On the rewind table below are a nice cluster of 101.6mm lens holders prior to being loaded in the LC-2 lens cabinet....and yes all fit just nicely...including the 16mm conversion parts for the FP-38E pictured above. Hopefully this will answer your questions on the single lens holders by Kinoton. Rummor has it they are working on a turret that will open up...we'll see. However most of my installations are with 5+ lenses each so I don't think they or anyone else will have a turret for me Steve  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-29-2003 07:11 PM                     Awwwwww Steve, your pictures were so impressive...up until the point you revealed this theater has YELLOW splicing tape!  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-29-2003 07:41 PM                     The customer gets to choose that one...Normally they only use yellow for 16mm...I don't think they have yellow in 35mm at the theatre. For 35mm they run 20min reels though have 6000 footers if so desired...for 16mm they only have one projector so features must be built up. Steve  |  IP: Logged Stephen Jones Master Film Handler Posts: 314 From: Geelong Victoria Australia Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-29-2003 09:18 PM                     Michael, The Kinoton FP50D and the FP30D are very popular here in Australia being used by several multiplexes around the country.I have 8 FP50D'S in my booth complete with Kinoton platters and find them a fantastic projector and platter.They give a supperior on screen results.They are easy in regards to maintainence and the console on the FP50D gives good light and ventilation, easy to work on eg changing xenon's.And I find that Kinotons treat film very well.When we break down a print after its season there isnt a mark on it its just the same as it came out of the box(distributors here very rarely use trunks)If I was building a multi screen theatre Kinoton would be my only choice.I have been useing Kinotons for many years off and on,you can keep your Centuries (Which I have used at different times)give me a Kinoton any time. As for the turrets they dont give that much trouble if they are maintained regularly and Kinoton now have new circuit board which is more reliable than the early type and also have new software for the turrets which has been just realeased.  |  IP: Logged Per Hauberg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 883 From: Malling, Denmark Registered: Jul 2000 posted 06-30-2003 05:27 AM                        There's a light at the end of the tunnel ! The single lens holder for the FP30D is already on it's way. In short time my only complaint to this new machine will be mortified. Happy days will be here to stay Looking forward to tell You, when I've reached the top. p. ------------------------------------ mitlesen: km, tb5  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 06-30-2003 06:46 AM                        Stephen, I am glad to hear that you are happy with the FP50D. I just looked an installation in Los Angeles yesterday as I am working to get a few of these for our chain. I wanted to see if there are any notable differences in the projector head to the models I know from Germany. Luckily, there are none. I never had much trouble with these projectors and practically none with the platters, especially since the brain with the optical end switches came out.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Jones Master Film Handler Posts: 314 From: Geelong Victoria Australia Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-30-2003 10:29 AM                     Michael, The platters are great they treat the film very gently I have never had a wrap with the electronic pay out.Be good if you could talk the owners into purchasing the full Kinton package as they work well together it is worth the extra dollars. Stephen  |  IP: Logged Larry Shaw Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Boston, MA, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 06-30-2003 08:33 PM                        Steve, It's true, the 35mm D and E series machines with turrets now come standard with a lever which moves the turret 20mm forward for threading. Retrofitting these would not be great fun, cutting a bit from the main panel would be required. It's easier to just buy a whole new projector.  |  IP: Logged Christian Appelt Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 505 From: Frankfurt, Germany Registered: Dec 2001 posted 07-01-2003 02:58 PM                     Machines I know and like: Bauer B11 Bauer Selecton (16mm) Bauer U4C (except 70mm format) Philips DP70 Machines I know and don`t like (hate is too strong a word) all pre-1970 Ernemann types (because the layout is cramped and the takeup is hard on film, in fact, they had to invent loose-side reels to prevent Ernemanns from tearing film when running 6000ft. changeover) Zeiss-Jena TK35 portable It CAN be run without problems, but seldom is... Same goes for the copycats from Russia and India anything built by Kinoton (this is purely emotional. I know that a well-maintained Kinoton machine gives a good performance, but I love the workmanship of old projectors, so that design introduced by Philips/Kinoton makes me I know that it makes sense in terms of economy and service, but -- well, look at a DP70 and then at a DP75 with is pathetic plastic pressure pads, "if you gotta ask, you`re never gonna know". Don`t tell me Kinoton machines are fine, I know they are.) Eiki 16mm They give quite a bright picture, but they are not very gentle with film and the sound is always inferior to a good Bauer Selecton. Machines I know and HATE Wassmann 35mm portables The lowest in projector design. Built to kill film. How did they sell them before Polyester film became the norm? Frieseke&Hoepfner FH66 You never heard of this one? That`s OK. The FH66 was the cheapest German theatre machine during the 1950s and 1960s, and it shows. While it has a beautiful streamline design, it is very hard on film because the frameline adjustment is done by an idle roller after the intermittent (like Zeiss TK35 and it eastern brothers). Impressive exhibit, but not for running film. Machines I would like to know Simplex, Strong, Ballantyne. They are quite rare in Germany, but as someone said before in this thread, there must be a reason why they were imitated so often. I remember an A.C. article about Don Iwerks` theme park installation and was impressed that they could run a print 140.000 times through a standard projector head (was it Ballantyne - don`t recall). Meopta As Michael Schaffer mentioned, they are built very sturdy (like anthing by Meopta, I love their photo and lab equipment!) and run quietly. I know a theatre where they do 6000ft. changeover and are very satisfied, and a friend of mine has two Meo machines he wants to install at his home. Dresden The German Democratic Republic (a.k.a. East Germany) had a line of 35mm machines in the 1950s/1960s, and they even built a 70mm machine. As I live in the western part of Germany, I never worked with a Dresden, but the film path design looks quite interesting to me. Microtecnica Mignon Microcine 35 They look like the best designed portables from Italy, but I never saw them except at Photokina in the 1980s. Maybe because they were also the most expensive portables! As for likes and dislikes: First, we like what we are used to. Second, there are personal reasons for liking/disliking a design. I worked on many Ernemann VIII and IXs and had no trouble with them, but I prefer a film path that makes it possible for me to check by eye whether anything runs fine. That impossible with Ernemann, so I don`t like it. The Bauer machines are generally more "open", so I like them. Third, it is the same as with cars: A 1955 car has a certain craftsmanship that a 2003 car does not possess. But the 2003 car is reliable, cheaper to produce and needs less service. Now which one is better? There is no easy answer to that. For the audience, it should not really matter if the projector is nice to thread or if it runs with a "trustworthy" sound. But it is easier and more satisying to work with a tool that you can relate to.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 07-02-2003 10:53 AM                        quote: I remember an A.C. article about Don Iwerks` theme park installation and was impressed that they could run a print 140.000 times through a standard projector head (was it Ballantyne - don`t recall). I have 35mm and 70mm samples of Kodak ESTAR base color prints run at theme parks that have up to 60,310 runs on them. The only damage is a bit of scuffing outside the perf area, and a slight amount of dye fading from the thousands of exposures to the intense energy of the lamphouse.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-03-2003 04:44 PM                     We have about a dozen ernamann 8b's running in the GTA I personally like them and find them very open and roomy. Also never had any problems with standard 6000' reels on them  |  IP: Logged

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