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Author Topic: Hey you, you suck! (AKA: Outing bad film handlers) Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 10-21-2004 05:26 PM                  I agree! Ya did the right thing, Cory! Email me your address and I'll send you a bottle of Scotch... quote: Cory said: You would think that a person's level would be an indicator of booth proficiency... While in theory that may be true, but over the years, I've realized that it's NOT! >>> Phil  |  IP: Logged Mike Olpin Chop Chop! Posts: 1852 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Jan 2002 posted 10-22-2004 02:23 AM                     Cory, Good Luck on your Level 4, dude! As far as "supiriors" building/tearing improperly, you did the right thing. Also, ask your BM or GM if they could schedule you some build/tear shifts.  |  IP: Logged Cory Isemann Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 500 From: White Plains, MD, USA Registered: Jun 2004 posted 10-23-2004 01:19 AM                        Thanks guys, level 4 now! I think maybe I'l tell him (my coworker) to check out F-T. Our booth manager does most of the building, I do a few. Breakdowns are done by any of us.  |  IP: Logged Rich Ferrando Film Handler Posts: 64 From: Royal Oak, MI Registered: Nov 2003 posted 10-23-2004 01:31 AM                       You certainly did act correctly. You should never feel ashamed that you have a better work ethic than your so-called "superiors." Good show for standing tall in the face of adversity. I had an issue with a so-called "superior" just today. (I'm sorry, but I must now "Out" the people I work with.) I get a phone call at around 3:00pm (I don't usually work 'till 6.) It's the City Manager, exasperated because one of the films, "The Manson Family," is "ghosting badly" and she can't figure out how to fix it. "I've tried everything. Turned every knob I can find." And I think "Oh, fabulous. Now she's turning knobs." I figured it can't be the shutter, cause I realigned it only a month ago, and the knob for that is safely tucked into the gearbox, and I know she can't squeeze behind the rack to get to that. :-) My guess was that she probably never closed the trap. (She's done that before.) So, I get there, and yes, the movie looks like its being projected in an earthquake, so I take a look-see at the threading. Let me preface this by giving one of the idiosyncrasies of one of our Century JJ's. We used to commonly have a problem with either improperly cut or overly thick splices dislodging one of the rollers and pulling out the bottom loop (below the trap,) which drops the analog sound bar (causing "underwater" sound) and drags the film across one of the internal components, scratching it to hell. So, upon gazing at this problem, I found that was the case- a crooked splice had dislodged the roller, sucked out the loop, and was causing the jittery picture. Even though this happened many times in the past (before I forced everyone to remove previous splices when building prints) and they should know that, I can excuse overlooking it since the problem hasn't arisen lately. But, this is where the fun begins... I stop the projector, and fix the loop so the film can run its course without causing further scratches, and I can find the bad splice after it's run through. However, upon close examination inside the projector, I notice that there is residue from the film scraping on the internal parts EVERYWHERE in the projector- almost like its been spray painted black. I ask how long the film had been jittery- she responds "The whole time." I look at the platter, and it's about 3 minutes from the end of the last reel. I say "Why didn't you stop the projector and look everything over?" Her response: "It's not like anybody complained about it." Kill. But it doesn't end there. After it was offscreen, I broke down the entire movie, and re-spliced every reel. I found that there were no crooked or overlapping splices in the film- which is good, whoever built it (it was built at our sister theater for a screening, and then trucked to our theater for its run) did in fact remove any old splices. BUT- THEY USED OPAQUE TAPE! And nasty crap, too. None of it peeled off clean, and it left sticky residue on all heads and tails. Kill twice. Anywho- the problem turned out to be caused by an extremely bad, crooked cut between the distributor logo and the beginning of the film, within 10 feet of the head of the first reel. So, the source of the problem lays in the hands of the lab, but still, the fact that it was opaque-spliced together, and running for two hours while scraping the living crap out of the entire movie, that really pissed me off. Luckily, "The Manson Family" is shot on a combination of grainy Super8, 16mm, and 1960's-era video, and much of it has scratches that are there on purpose, so the new base scratches are barely noticeable. But still, if this had been any other movie, it'd be completely destroyed. Now I have to wake up early tomorrow and wipe out ever square inch of the projector to get rid of the residue from the film shedding. I should take a picture of it for you guys. Oh- and the tail of "Stage Beauty," which our sister theater also had for a screening and failed to tell us that it wrapped, and thusly has a big HOLE in the end credits. You'll love it, I assure you.  |  IP: Logged Steve Scott Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1300 From: Minneapolis, MN Registered: Sep 2000 posted 10-28-2004 07:07 PM                     I went to Team America last night at AMC Mall of America. We were in #6 for the 10:00 show, and right as my friends and I walked in, there was this painful winding noise in the right surround channel, and by the Flight of the Phoenix trailer, I could tell that there were issues with the screen channel too, as a heavy thumping popped in as soon as the volume increased. There were also pleanty of sound dropouts: After any ugly lab splice, and right before reel changes. This led me to believe that I was in an SRD auditorium, the timing of that dropout being my only clue as AMC can't fit a sound trailer into their 15 minute trailer pack Worse yet, the sound always defaulted into mono when the digital track was lost. Sound aside, when I sat down, my elbows rose up to my shoulders, and my tailbone came to rest on the back edge of the seat. At least everyone else attending the show was behind us, as the sightlines would have put every row right in our line of vision... Walking out later I noticed there was barely any elevation change from front to back, probably a few inches at most,and this was a larger auditorium! Of all the facilities in the Twin Cities, why not stadium here? The print was a little dirty, but the end of R5 showed some deep diagonal scratches. This being my first AMC experience in quite awhile, I was relieved that the presentation problems were as brief as they were, but the entire experience felt cheap. It seems like a lot of issues have gone unchecked there. I know that there's somebody in the forum that works for AMC in the Twin Cities, so maybe this will get mentioned, noticed, whatever...  |  IP: Logged Dominic Espinosa Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1172 From: California, U.S.A. Registered: Jan 2004 posted 10-29-2004 12:52 PM                     Wow. My Team America had 4 lab splices. 3 in successive reels. Perhaps their print was dropping out because of dust and cruddy film? Anyhow...Print #165 of Garden State...What a mess! The heads of R3 and R2 were of course wrapped around R1 and tangled, no big, that's about the usual for every sub-run I've ever seen. The entire print is scratched however. Like someone decided to thread it against a sanding block or something. There's some emulsion scratches that appear through the first and third reels and here's my favorite... They brain wrapped it...TWICE it looks like as there's stretched perfs. just before RIP TEAR WRINKLE MAULING AHHHH! and what did they do to "fix" this? Made a series (about 9 combined feet from 2 places in reel 1) of poorly made, filthy, single sided splices (which alternate on each side of the film!!!) with the some of the cheapest tape I've ever seen. The reel ends had fingerprints, dirt, and what looked like water or something on them and of course, ugly, white tape. Impossible to peel white tape. Reel three, same thing. Stretched perfs and then RIP, TEAR, blah blah blah, lots of distortion of the non-soundtrack side all through R4, 5, and 6. Parts of the reels looked like someone was clamping the edge of the film opposite the soundtrack and just stretching the hell out of it. Very ugly, sounded like gravel in the projector. And let's not forget the splice in reel 3 that actually came apart in my fingers as I was inspecting it. Reel 6 went out of frame durring the credits because more shitty splices of course, about 4, and the tail looked like it was stepped on. So I call up ETS and ask for a replacement and they say well I'll call the rep cause I can't do a damn thing about it because FOX doesn't let us. Rep boy never calls back and I have yet to hear anything. I have a feeling this is going to be another weekend of running a print with obvious damage before seeing a replacement. I had to run Raise Your Voice for a weekend with everyone looking pea-soup green throughout reel 1! The replacement which was "going to be there on friday morning" was there on saturday night. Kudos guys, kudos. Unfortunately ETS wouldn't tell me where the print came from so I could drive down and fix their equipment/break their legs. Oh well.  |  IP: Logged Barry Martin Expert Film Handler Posts: 203 From: Newington, CT USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 10-29-2004 11:12 PM                        Dominic, when I tried to find out where prints came from not ETS, my delivery driver for ETS, Technicolor, DHL driver, or the distributors could tell me where it came from. At least that's what they claim, find it hard to believe they don't keep track with print #s and what-not. As far as getting replacement, are you sure you're speaking with ETS proper or just a courier/delivery service that delivers ETS prints for you? For instance, my ETS prints get picked up from the ETS depot in Salem, MA by Theatrical Film Service and are delievered to me by them. On you film cans should be the phone number for the depot, and if that fails there is always ETS main out in CA. Funny you should mention stretching as I had an ENTIRE copy of Vanity Fair arive in this condition. In fact, my prints arrived so late this week and in such poor shape, that it took me all day just to get them built! I was still building the 3rd print when my 1st showtime started. Which of course allowed for no test screening of my 3 used prints, so I have no idea what they look or sound like on screen. Although one good thing, the delivery labels were left on one of them from the theater prior, so expect a long YOU SUCK tomorrow when I have the time (and energy) to post MY outings for the week. Best of luck!  |  IP: Logged Dominic Espinosa Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1172 From: California, U.S.A. Registered: Jan 2004 posted 10-30-2004 11:27 AM                     Thanks. ETS did find a replacement for my print. It showed up 20 minutes before showtime. Good thing I built that other print for the 2 people that showed up for it Anyhow, the replacement (#6011) was dirty, lots of fingerprints, and contaminated with shoe polish, but at least it wasn't scratched and mauled. I think it bothered me more when I got prints like this on an every day basis. There's really no excuse for the kind of damage you see in most of these prints. And again, I ask...Why must people with greasy hands not wear gloves?  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-30-2004 03:29 PM                     Barry writes, "when I tried to find out where prints came from not ETS, my delivery driver for ETS, Technicolor, DHL driver, or the distributors could tell me where it came from." Yes, ETS and TES both track where prints go extensively. But as a matter of policy, they generally will not tell you. (Drivers will only know if the print was circuitted from another theatre rather than from the depot.) For ETS studios, I believe your studio booker is likely to have realtime access to that information as well as the authority to share it with you (but perhaps not the inclination). --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 10-30-2004 05:15 PM                    With ETS studios, I have had situations where the studio has not specified a particular print and the local trucking contractor was simply told to bring whichever one they happened to have. That's how we came to have a print of Manchurian Candidate a few weeks back that had no leaders at all. The F-T Reel ID reference was a good resource for my assistant and I to verify that the numbers on the little snips of masking tape were correct.  |  IP: Logged Barry Martin Expert Film Handler Posts: 203 From: Newington, CT USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 11-01-2004 10:59 AM                        Okay, this was a stellar week. So many problems and the prints arrived Friday morning that I wasn't finished building before showtime (6pm folks!) To the Lebanon 6 (thank you for leaving your DHL label on the can) in Lebanon, NH: Vanity Fair was a pure representation of film done wrong. The best part is the film was obviously "inspected" by Technicolor as the id frame on the head leader was cut off and the leader re-attatched to the head by means of a one-sided clear splice OVER the crappy yellow splice tape on the feature side of the head, although the tails still had id frames and were "spliced" together with masking tape. The reels were wound especially loose and emulsion-in, and either as a result or in addition the ENTIRE film was damaged. The non-soundtrack side of the film from the sprockets to the SDDS appears creased/stretched and discolored. There is also a very strange mark on the film throughout the print, don't know if it's a scratch. On screen it appears as a "ghost line" is the best I can describe it. Not black line, not green, just transparent. On the film itself it looks like perhaps someone took a pencil eraser and marked it. This is not a straight line either, it waves left and right across the image very slowly. As a result of the sprocket damage, the film winds onto the platter VERY strangely. It's loose, but it also seems to wind uneven vertically. Meaning the film does not lie flat on the platter, but instead has parts that stick up. Called TES and let them know what the theater did and the inspector missed (the sprocket damage and "scratch" are clearly visible at the beginning of EVERY reel) so hopefully something will get done. To the Eastfield Mall in Springfield, MA (can labels also left on): Friday Night Lights was another beauty, and a direct circuit, so thanks for being considerate of others. There were 3 frames cut from the head which were masking taped back onto the feature and then ANOTHER frame on the leader which was also masking taped. The tails were worse, with the same "splicing" technique except there were 4 frames plus a leader frame taken. Needless to say, my reel-changes look and sound just FANTASTIC. This print prompts me to ask what a safe distance for splicing is? In other words, how far apart should two splices be to project properly and not risk breakage. At least you shouldn't hear anything from me for a while as we are on a first-run "run" for a couple months (hopefully). Incredibles, Polar Express, National Treasure, Alexander, Closer, Ocean's 12, Lemony Snickets, and we should have SOMETHING new for christmas.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-01-2004 12:28 PM                     Barry, the TES inspectors no longer will cut off a frame when doing an integrity inspection. They will lay a single sided clear piece of tape over the joint though to ensure that there is not sprocket damage as the reel is in transit. Odds are that the theater before you was not leaving a head ID frame, but was leaving a tail ID frame. That's exactly the opposite way that has been proposed, but I suppose it still accomplishes the task of only losing one frame per reel change.  |  IP: Logged Barry Martin Expert Film Handler Posts: 203 From: Newington, CT USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 11-01-2004 12:33 PM                        Ah, thanks for the note Brad, I thought I had read somewhere you saw them removing id frames before shipping, maybe something to do with rejuvination or the films being sent overseas? The print was definitely inspected though, head leaders were secured down with that white tape Technicolor always uses. Good to know they stopped chopping frames though!  |  IP: Logged Chris Brown Expert Film Handler Posts: 105 From: Fairport, NY, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-08-2004 01:02 AM                        Hey everyone...I'm new here, just stumbled upon this place a few days ago. Very excited to see a bunch of projection people like myself. Anyways I'm lucky enough to work at a first-run theatre, but I have had a few instances where we get a second run print (usually for a sneak) and have issues like some you guys have discussed. One I recall in particular was earlier this year; we had a sneak of "Win a Date With Tad Hamilton!" on a Friday night. I didn't bulid the print the night before, the other Thursday night guy who was on with me did. But I was in the booth Friday night for the sneak. Apparently at the last theatre to have it, the person who broke it spilled soda or something on the last three reels. This of course led me to have three brain wraps to deal with, then having to babysit the print to prevent any more. We survived the sneak, but the next night I sat there for two hours with film guard trying to clean off whatever the hell was on the last reels of the print. Apparently I did ok since we had another sneak the next day that ran fine. But I could not believe that someone could be so careless and let a print leave their theatre in that condition. Even though we are primarily a first run theatre, I and a few others always break down our prints with great care. The problem is though that I'm only there seasonally (going to college a few hours away), so things that I do dont necessarily get done by others. Like reference frames, for example. I never use them, as I see it as a waste of two frames and can also be distracting in terms of audio in the auditorium. But nobody else seems to agree with me, and continue to build this way. Like I said I'm not really in any position to change this...if I wasnt away at school I would probably be the booth manager there, but that I cant help. BTW congrats on Level 4 Cory! It took guts to do what you did, I give you lots of credit on that one. We have a guy like that too who does breakdowns...been in the business 35 years. So I know how you feel, thinking that just cause of their experience they know more than you. Definitely not always true. Its gonna take me awhile to read through all pages of this thread, but I'm definitely glad to be here!  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 11-08-2004 07:57 AM                        Welcome to Film-Tech Chris! I'm just a few miles north of you in Penfield, near the route 250/441 intersection. Which Rochester area theatre do are you a manager at?  |  IP: Logged

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