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Author Topic: 3D Coming back to film? Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-27-2009 03:52 PM                     Thats what I was told by someone from Stewart quite a long time ago, probably about 10 years ago. They said that prices would keep going up the stiffer that EPA and California got with the pollution laws that pertain to them. Gee, we can't do mag stripe here in the States any more and I certainly hope that doesn't catch up to Stewart!! At that point they'd have to trap and remove the stuff from the air.... and for all I know may already be doing that. It doesn't surprise me that all their prices are high having to pay the Feds and the State what amounts to a tax to be able to pour their concoction out to evaporate. But I do agree it's the finest looking and measuring surface made. Not very durable though because it is so thin. Mark  |  IP: Logged Julio Roberto Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 938 From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain Registered: Oct 2008 posted 10-27-2009 04:59 PM                    quote: Mark Gulbrandsen Really Julio, How many of your customers will you be able to convince to spend upwards of 15,000 dollars to put in yet another iffy 3-D film setup, especially one in which everyone knows will become yet another relic in a very short time period A few more than I could convinced to move to 1.3K DLP projection when that was "the norm" Sure 3D in film is Dead On Arrival, just as film itself has the writing on the wall, but CURRENT digital cinema is not THAT far behind the pale one ... I agree that, if you can wait for Gen2 DCI equipment (or, should we call it, REAL DCI equipment, as most of today's equipment is NOT "dci" in spite of the claims), then fine. If you can't wait or want to wait much longer, I say the Technicolor solution can buy you the 3D market for the next 5 years until 3D dies anyway and perhaps can pay for itself in some situations. But I agree that waiting for Gen2 equipment, if this ever becames affordable and "good" (i.e., why the hell don't they include audio digital EQ in the DCI players?), is pbbly the better choice. quote: - has anyone actually seen the Technicolor system? if so, how did it look? - how is this different from the Paramount (etc.) over/under systems from the 1980s? I haven't seen it. My understanding, it's just about the same print-wise as the 80's (i.e. frame separation or frame area might be slightly different, density may be adjusted to correct for illumination levels or optical disparities) and very similar to Stereovision (prominent in the 80's) in that it uses a split-lense (two half-lenses in the same barrel) with polarizers, although this time they'll be circular instead of the prominent method of linear during the 80's (there were a few public circular polarization engagements in the 80's as well, but most were linear). I've seen Stewarts and Da-lite's silvers being rolled all the time. I've personally have rolled Tecknicotes w/o problems. I have heard of Harkness'es silver being rolled too. Again, we are talking about a few rolls a year, carefully done and with some protective (i.e. paper) "spacer". Silver screens are NOT done for rolling etc, but if you need to, and it's only a couple times a year, well, then you need to. quote: Frank Angel Can you project polarized 3D thru a rear projection screen? Absolutely. Many rear screen materials don't change (much) the polarization of the light as it goes through. Some better, some worse. Rigid material, made by tensioning, usually preserves it (when oriented in the right position). But large, foldable, seamed rear-screen common material of the "curtain shower" type, like polacoats, performed adequately for 3D, amazingly enough. They hotspot a lot, and usually the more they diffuse, the more they depolarize. Such are the laws of physics. In a circular polarized rear-screen projection system, you want to invert the possition of the circular filters to match the glasses, as no specular reflection exists to change the handeness of the circular rotation of the light.  |  IP: Logged Ramon Lamarca Marques Expert Film Handler Posts: 186 From: Edgware, England, UK Registered: Feb 2006 posted 10-28-2009 06:13 PM                     I have just read through Technicolor's website and it is nice to see references to 'people who love film'. I like projected film, it is a unique experience. I hope that there is going to be an option to see film for a little while and this offer from Technicolor seems an interesting option for those of us who like film. I do not think 3-D should disappear, it is a valid tool for filmmakers if they want to use it. Actually, I think that once they achieve 3-D without glasses it may become commonplace. Well, it is easy to speculate, but I hope that a variety of formats and textures will continue present in cinemas for years to come.  |  IP: Logged Michael Marini Film Handler Posts: 27 From: issue maryland/ USA Registered: Dec 2005 posted 10-30-2009 10:49 AM                     Technicolor lines up partners for 3D Silver Screen Fund Oct 28, 2009 Thomson’s Technicolor Business Group has aligned with Deluxe Entertainment Services Group, Eastman Kodak Company and Fujifilm to provide financial assistance to motion picture exhibitors seeking an immediate 3D technology solution. The Silver Screen Fund will defer costs associated with the purchase and installation of silver screens by providing financial assistance to exhibitors who deploy the Technicolor 3D solution. The fund will be managed by Technicolor, which last week announced broad studio support for their new process. The Silver Screen Fund will finance up to 500 silver screens to be installed at theatres in the United States, Canada and the United Kingdom. Funding is available immediately for qualified exhibitors. When exhibitors complete the terms of the Silver Screen Fund agreement, they will own the silver screen, a necessary component for future digital 3D projection. “Technicolor is committed to delivering high-quality, affordable 3D solutions, and the creation of the Silver Screen Fund accelerates our promise to our exhibition partners by helping them defer upfront costs associated with the purchase and installation of silver screens,” said Lanny Raimondo, head of Technicolor. “Thanks to overwhelming studio and industry support, we expect to sign up these first 500 screens in the coming weeks, keeping us on track to reach our target of more than 1,000 Technicolor 3D screens by mid-2010.” “Deluxe is proud to have a long history of supporting our customers by providing whatever format they choose for their content. This technology bridge for 3D exhibition is a cost-effective way to help our customers maximize their theatrical release schedules,” said Cyril Drabinsky, president and CEO of Deluxe. “Right now, there are not enough 3D screens to accommodate major releases and the screen shortage becomes compounded when you consider issues of overlapping 3D releases,” said Kim Snyder, president, entertainment imaging, and VP, Eastman Kodak Company. “The industry desperately needs additional screens to satisfy demands by studios and movie fans, who consistently vote for 3D with their box-office dollar. The Silver Screen Fund levels the playing field so all exhibitors can realize the benefits of 3D presentations.” “With the digital 3D rollout slowed significantly by the economy, and because of the prohibitive cost associated with digital-cinema conversion, we believe Technicolor’s film-based 3D innovation is the right solution,” said Graeme Parcher, group VP, Fujifilm North American Motion Picture Group. addthis_url = location.target='_blank' href; addthis_title = document.title; addthis_pub = 'nielsen1'; Save | E-mail | Print | Most Popular | RSS | Reprints Technicolor lines up partners for 3D Silver Screen Fund Oct 28, 2009 Thomson’s Technicolor Business Group has aligned with Deluxe Entertainment Services Group, Eastman Kodak Company and Fujifilm to provide financial assistance to motion picture exhibitors seeking an immediate 3D technology solution. The Silver Screen Fund will defer costs associated with the purchase and installation of silver screens by providing financial assistance to exhibitors who deploy the Technicolor 3D solution. The fund will be managed by Technicolor, which last week announced broad studio support for their new process. The Silver Screen Fund will finance up to 500 silver screens to be installed at theatres in the United States, Canada and the United Kingdom. Funding is available immediately for qualified exhibitors. When exhibitors complete the terms of the Silver Screen Fund agreement, they will own the silver screen, a necessary component for future digital 3D projection. “Technicolor is committed to delivering high-quality, affordable 3D solutions, and the creation of the Silver Screen Fund accelerates our promise to our exhibition partners by helping them defer upfront costs associated with the purchase and installation of silver screens,” said Lanny Raimondo, head of Technicolor. “Thanks to overwhelming studio and industry support, we expect to sign up these first 500 screens in the coming weeks, keeping us on track to reach our target of more than 1,000 Technicolor 3D screens by mid-2010.” “Deluxe is proud to have a long history of supporting our customers by providing whatever format they choose for their content. This technology bridge for 3D exhibition is a cost-effective way to help our customers maximize their theatrical release schedules,” said Cyril Drabinsky, president and CEO of Deluxe. “Right now, there are not enough 3D screens to accommodate major releases and the screen shortage becomes compounded when you consider issues of overlapping 3D releases,” said Kim Snyder, president, entertainment imaging, and VP, Eastman Kodak Company. “The industry desperately needs additional screens to satisfy demands by studios and movie fans, who consistently vote for 3D with their box-office dollar. The Silver Screen Fund levels the playing field so all exhibitors can realize the benefits of 3D presentations.” “With the digital 3D rollout slowed significantly by the economy, and because of the prohibitive cost associated with digital-cinema conversion, we believe Technicolor’s film-based 3D innovation is the right solution,” said Graeme Parcher, group VP, Fujifilm North American Motion Picture Group.  |  IP: Logged Michael Marini Film Handler Posts: 27 From: issue maryland/ USA Registered: Dec 2005 posted 11-13-2009 02:26 PM                     Technicolor's 3D Format Lines Up 7 Studios, 37 Movies Paramount, Universal, Warners adopt film process that works with existing 35mm projectors. By Wrap Staff Published: October 22, 2009 ShareThisEMAILPRINTvote nowBuzz up! Related Keywords Technicolor 3D Slideshow TheWrap Hosts 'Under Our Skin' Filmmakers After Wednesday's screening of documentary "Under Our Skin," TheWrap hosted a Q&A with director Andy Abrahams Wilson; actress Joanna Kerns, a self-described "Lyme mother"; and actress Tracey Silver, who has Lyme disease. Read more. Photographs by Jonathan Alcorn. Technicolor's new 3D process has lined up the support of seven studios that are actively developing films in the format, the company said Thursday. Paramount, Universal, Warner Bros., DreamWorks Animation, Lionsgate, Overture and the Weinstein Company all have slated movies that will employ Technicolor 3D, the format unveiled last month that is compatible with existing 35mm cinema projectors. Among the 37 Technicolor 3D movies in the pipeline for 2010 are "Shrek Forever After," "How to Train Your Dragon," "Piranha 3D," "Despicable Me," "Cats & Dogs: The Revenge of Kitty Galore," "Guardians of Ga’Hoole" and "Oobermind." Frederic Rose, chairman and CEO of Thomson/Technicolor, said the format addresses the "3D gap" in theaters because no significant modifications are needed for the existing 35mm projectors in 90 percent of U.S. cinemas. "The Technicolor 3D rollout substantially increases the 3D theatrical footprint, delivering to studios a larger platform for reaching masses of moviegoers," Rose said in a statement. Technicolor also said Deluxe Entertainment Services Group would provide its customers with the postproduction and printing services to deliver films in the format. Home > movies  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-13-2009 08:44 PM                     First rumors in are that the "deal" is a bit pricey for exhibitors though. Also, Disney, a major 3D studio does not seem to be on their list, yet. Anyone have any hard information? I'm also curious if some existing 3D lenses with suitable circular polarizers used in place of the '80s linear polarizers could allow exhibitors to use what is already out there. Steve  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-13-2009 09:51 PM                        It would seem foolish not to make this backward compatible with the existing hardware that is out there. Since it's no secret that this is intended only as a stop-gap system, exhibitors will certainly not be enthusiastic about plunking down any substantial amount of moolah to play only a few 3D titles. On the other hand, those exhibitors who resisted the move to digital but can now put 3D up on their screens WITHOUT buying into digital, they may very well decide that this give them even LESS of an incentive to convert. There won't ever be any pressing reason to convert as long as the studios are willing to supply celuloid. 3D film could very well slow down the conversion train to 3D. And lets face it, if distribution has come to the realization that the number of digital 3D screens is just too small to bring in the $$$ they need to get those opening weekend grosses up where they need to be to make them happy, they they're not going to care very much what format they need to supply the exibitors as long as they can open on those essential 4000 3D screens; digital or film, who cares.  |  IP: Logged Ian Parfrey Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1049 From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E Registered: Feb 2009 posted 11-14-2009 12:23 AM                     Frank You have summed up the whole situation in one paragraph. And I'd venture to say that Technicolor's holding back and then releasing their film-based system was no coincidence. Who else would have the "inside" track on how the digital 3D rollout is going? They supply the film prints, duplicate the hard drives &tc, so they would see first hand how the digi-conversion is going. It just MAY extend the life of 35mm for quite a while yet.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-14-2009 11:40 AM                     This film 3-d thing is foolish to say the least. It'll still end up costing the average exhibitor 15 to 20 grand with labor added in! Save the cash for digital because its comming and you WILL need it to stay in buisness... Investing in film 3-D when you will at the very least require 2-D digital to stay in buisness is the equivelent to throwing your money in the camp fire. Mark  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-14-2009 01:59 PM                     quote: It'll still end up costing the average exhibitor 15 to 20 grand with labor added in! Then,this draws a question here on this: If a exhibitor does decide to go the TECH 3D way, he leases the lens, have to change out his screen to silver, then what's the next step? Does he also need to change out the reflector, or do any lamphouse mods for more light efficency? Thing I'm seeing so far is that the exhibitor can keep his projectors, keeping the same usage of his bulb inventory along with the same operating bulb durations, et.al. .. and stay in the same budget for bulb purchases - not having to horribly increase his bulb purchases for less hours of usage, let alone for the high cost of purchasing new digital equipment... ..but I'm just only seeing the shiny surface on this whole TECH 3D thing. For there could be a lot more to this format below the shiny surface that really needs to be brought forward, especially to those venue owners who are looking at this option. And if their is, TECH better get all the facts out on the table for all of us to see before "lemmings running over the cliff" becomes the norm for the budget-minded venue owners. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-14-2009 02:47 PM                        At least the silver screen can be re-used if the theatre later converts to 3D. And if it works with the old-style mirror boxes, those can be had cheaply on the used market (I bought two of the Paramount boxes for $75 apiece a year or two ago). This doesn't sound like a bad deal if there are new films that can be shown on this system, assuming that it works with an acceptable level of quality.  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 11-14-2009 03:03 PM                    Still the problem with this is if you signed an exclusive real D agreement, most likely you will not be able to use this system even if it is film related.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 11-14-2009 05:49 PM                        You will need a "checkout:" 16 ft/lm with old screen and right focal length of backup lens, etc. If so, you are probably OK. Louis  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-14-2009 06:10 PM                        As far as needing to upgrade the lamphouse for 3D film, the digevangelists seem to think that 3D is just peachy-keen at a vomit-making paultry 3 to 5ftL, then they can't get their panty-hose all up in a bunch and poo-poo 3D film because it will drop in brightness as well. If "it's good enuf" for the digital goose, then it's "good enuf" for the film gander. Plus, I don't know where you're pulling that $15k to $20k figure from Mark. What will be needed more that the silver screen and the convergence mirror box or split lens? And the silver screen can't really be counted since it is common to both systems and is an investment that as Scott points out, can certainly be used if down the line he decides to do the digital conversion once the full DCI stuff is settled on and the 4K resolution finally gets really locked in as THE standard. And let's not forget that if Mr. 3D Digital Exhibitor has the cahoones to adding a surcharge for showing 3D (which I personally think has been a big marketing mistake), then no reason at all why Mr. 3D Film Exhibitor can't add the same surcharge. So if an exhibitor can make a profit by spending $90k to put in digital 3D, I don't see why a exhibitor wouldn't spend say $5K for lens and screen for a 3D film system and couldn't make a profit as well. And yes, I admit it -- I am pulling that $5K figure out of my ask, but I think my ask is a little closer to a reality figure than Mark's (and I bet it's cuter too).  |  IP: Logged Karl Borowski Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Sulking in GameFAQ Forum Registered: Sep 2009 posted 11-14-2009 08:32 PM                     With a $3.50 or $3 ticket surcharge, even a $15K upgrade pays for itself in no time. If you take into account a screen pending replacement anyway, and a lens install that is orders of magnitude easier than a full projector replacement, you're spending a tenth of what DLP will cost; keep in mind a 2K projector is rapidly nearing the point of becoming disposable technology too. IDK though what sort of surcharges might exist for TECH 3D prints. I'm sure the 3D printing process will be more expensive, at least at the master positive or IN/DN stage, to manufacture than your standard DI=>35mm production chain. It wouldn't surprise me, since studios are probably all against this move anyway, if they tried to pass all of, or more than all of the cost of manufacturing 3D film prints on to the theatres. I think the only people smiling at this, besides me of course, are: Technicolor, then Eastman Kodak's Entertainment Imaging Division, and then FujiFilm's Mo. Pic. division. The digital conversion, whenever the tide fully turns in that direction, is probably going to kill a lot of the poor indie theatres, so I applaud Technicolor for taking steps to keep the film systems competitive.  |  IP: Logged

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