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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » 3D Coming back to film? (Page 6)

 
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Author Topic: 3D Coming back to film?
Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 10-25-2009 05:44 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Martin McCaffery
Lamp and screen are another story, but those can at least be used the rest of the time and be considered an upgrade.
Good idea on the lenses but for what time will you be using the lamphouse? By then film will be gone fmr any major distribution arena.

If they time for 6fl then they have to dual inventory prints. Not likely again.

quote: Julio Roberto
I agree that moving to digital is the "sane" choice. But not as it currently stands. You are forced to buy, IMHO, inferior (2K), expensive (by many times), obsolete (non-DCI compliant) equipment with almost zero help from distributors, who are the ones saving money.
Then just wait and buy the 2nd Generation machines. They are supposed to be easily convertable between 2K or 4K and besides not all theaters need 4K.

Again, Unless you are in a locked in zone all of your own 3-D is meaningless to profits. If you have a largish area all to yourself then 3-D might make sense. In any case you are not going to loose a thing by NOT installing 3-D and you may have alot to gain in a very short period by putting banking that money and later on putting it towards a 2nd generation 2-D Digital system.

Really Julio, How many of your customers will you be able to convince to spend upwards of 15,000 dollars to put in yet another iffy 3-D film setup, especially one in which everyone knows will become yet another relic in a very short time period and especially one in which the number or realease prints will also be iffy and also be dwindling in quantity as digital takes over.

Mark

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 10-25-2009 06:21 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Two questions:

- has anyone actually seen the Technicolor system? if so, how did it look?

- how is this different from the Paramount (etc.) over/under systems from the 1980s?

As much as I love film, my immediate reaction is to say that this is a lousy idea, but I could be convinced otherwise.

I'd rather see 3D done right, which (to me, anyway) would be 2-strip 35mm, Imax, or Real-D.

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Ron Curran
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 504
From: Springwood NSW Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

- posted 10-25-2009 08:50 PM      Profile for Ron Curran   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Curran   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On the silver screen issue, the theatre group only has two shows a year but they have 12 rehearsals on that stage for each show ond they spread their performances over 2 weekends, so that is a lot of rolling up and down.

In addition, they sometimes come into the building un-announced for set construction or lighting tests. This is an amateur group that needs a lot of work and it must be on stage.

Every live theatre group I was ever involved with was lucky to see the stage a week before.

Will somebody please give us alternative premises!

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Demetris Thoupis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1240
From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 10-26-2009 01:29 AM      Profile for Demetris Thoupis   Email Demetris Thoupis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
How many of your customers will you be able to convince to spend upwards of 15,000 dollars to put in yet another iffy 3-D film setup, especially one in which everyone knows will become yet another relic in a very short time period and especially one in which the number or realease prints will also be iffy and also be dwindling in quantity as digital takes over.
In reality Mark even D-Cine 3D solution will be come a relic in a very short time period. Film gives you the lower cost advantage. Already sales to 3D are going down.
Demetris

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Brendan Penny
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 121
From: Bundoora, Australia
Registered: Dec 2008

- posted 10-26-2009 03:20 AM      Profile for Brendan Penny   Email Brendan Penny   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Julio Roberto
Most (all?) silver screens can easily take a couple of rolls a year without a problem. It'll be a bitch, as they can get dirty easily etc and can usually not be effectively cleaned, but if very careful, can be rolled a few times during their lives.
I dunno man, in my experience I [bs] myself even unrolling new screen straight out of the shipping create let alone repeatedly taking one down and rolling it up again. Not saying it can't be done but its playing with fire. All it takes is one little mark and its game over IMO.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 10-26-2009 05:54 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've never found one screen company that okayed rolling a silver (or any painted) screen. It gets rolled just once; and that is for shipping...with separators put in to keep it from killing itself.

I've discussed with a manufacturer using a roll down screen for silver (hang the box just in front of the regular screen)...they said..."maybe" IF you left it unrolled most of the time (unroll it nightly left it that way and then re-rolled at the beginning of the day for your normal 2D shows).

If anyone can get a screen company to be good with re-rolling a Silver screen...please post it.

Steve

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Stephen Furley
Film God

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From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002

- posted 10-26-2009 07:24 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The MOMI screen was the opposite situation; The silver screen was only used for very occasional 3-D shows. I think it was normally rolled up when not in use. It was certainly rolled up on the extremely rare occasions when the rear projection screen was used, or when what was normally the space behind the screen was used for displays, performances, exhibitions, usually during lectures, but such use was also rare.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 10-26-2009 01:18 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can you project polarized 3D thru a rear projection screen? Will the polarization carry thru to the other side or does it get defused? Just curious, not that it would solve the hot-spot problem -- RP screens, in my experience have worse hot-spotting that silver screens.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

- posted 10-26-2009 01:22 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Frank Angel
Can you project polarized 3D thru a rear projection screen? Will the polarization carry thru to the other side or does it get defused? Just curious, not that it would solve the hot-spot problem -- RP screens, in my experience have worse hot-spotting that silver screens.
I would probably have to say no. I have never worked with rear projection but I would think that you would loose the reflectivity since you need the light to reflect back at you to make the 3-D work properly.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

- posted 10-26-2009 01:22 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
I've never found one screen company that okayed rolling a silver (or any painted) screen. It gets rolled just once; and that is for shipping...with separators put in to keep it from killing itself.

I've discussed with a manufacturer using a roll down screen for silver (hang the box just in front of the regular screen)...they said..."maybe" IF you left it unrolled most of the time (unroll it nightly left it that way and then re-rolled at the beginning of the day for your normal 2D shows).

If anyone can get a screen company to be good with re-rolling a Silver screen...please post it.

Steve
Steve, back in the late 80's I worked at Knott's Berry Farm here in So. Cali running an insipid 3-D short called "Sea Dream" (insert your own comical nicknames for it here). We had eight prints made up on a Potts Super platter (I later sold them a Christie ELF to avoid the rethreading issues some folks had).

We had a Stewart silver screen which was rolled up nightly and it lasted for over three years of that without even a scuff. Maybe it was specially coated to take that, but knowing how cheap Knott's was then I doubt it.

The original prints were over/under 3-D , with 4-track mag sound!! Later prints were redone in Dolby-A optical and I sold them an Ultra*Stereo processor.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 10-26-2009 04:06 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It was Stewart that told me about having to leave the screens unrolled most of the time. Stewart is my favorite screen, by far but if one is "cheap" they are not for you...they are typically 4-5X the cost of typical cinema screens.

They are the only roll-down screen, in my opinion, that can look like a fixed screen. They also have some of the niftiest masking systems for their roll-downs.

Steve

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Hillary Charles
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 748
From: York, PA, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

- posted 10-26-2009 04:28 PM      Profile for Hillary Charles   Email Hillary Charles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Frank Angel
Can you project polarized 3D thru a rear projection screen? Will the polarization carry thru to the other side or does it get defused? Just curious, not that it would solve the hot-spot problem -- RP screens, in my experience have worse hot-spotting that silver screens.
Yes Frank, it IS possible to rear-project polarized 3-D without losing polarization. There were a few RP units for stereo slides made in the 1950s (I have one version), and the process works well. I have no idea how large anyone has tried that, and it may depend upon the screen material. The RP unit I have has a ground glass screen. That might not be practical on a large scale (or to try to roll up). [Wink] [Big Grin]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 10-26-2009 10:24 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
they are typically 4-5X the cost of typical cinema screens.
Steve,

I for one will admit they are the best but it is interesting to note that the reason they are 4 to 5 times more expensive is because of all the EPA and State Of California pollution charges they pay to let the chemicals evaporate when the screens are poured. It is not because they are 4 to 5 times better although I'd probably allow them that claim too!! If it wasn't for all the chemicals they use and the evaporative method used to make them they would'nt cost all that much more than a regular screen. One also wouldn't consider them to be a very "Green" screen by any means.

If you wanted to attempt to roll a Silver screen I woould reccomend that you look into either the Hurley or Big Sky washable silver screens... put the Hurley at the bottom of the list though as it's very blotchy and inconsistant! One of these screens wold probably survive for a number of years being rolled up and down as long as its not too many times a year.

Mark

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 10-27-2009 06:09 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hurley screens are not good for rolling at all. Their seams are made by embedding a wire to form a butt splice. If they are to be used as a roll up, they have to have the wire go horizontally and due to how the screen will be tensioned (or lack there of), the bulge from the seam will be very noticeable.

Didn't Big Sky buy the Technikote screens? Never known for being particularly good. Also, as a roll up...a bit too thick. In some ways, Hurley's normal SilverGlo would be the best materials but not with the seaming they use (and they are thick screens too).

As for Stewart...I don't know if it is all EPA related...EVERYTHING from Stewart is 4-5X the cost...including their hardware, screenboxes...you name it. They just have the best "look" by far...to me, at least.

Steve

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

- posted 10-27-2009 06:32 AM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Another cost factor with Stewart is their seamless, one piece, construction. They admit that their Silver 3D surface is "too stiff" for roll up applications.

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