my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » all digital projection theatres (Page 2)

This topic comprises 9 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9

Author Topic: all digital projection theatres David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 08-26-2007 12:58 PM                     quote: John Walsh I have to agree with Dustin on this. Most of the reason to go to digital is to seriously reduce labor in the booth. If quality presentation was really the goal, we wouldn't be getting rid of 35mm in the first place. Another big cost reduction will be print costs to the studios, I think the current VPFs run about half the cost of a 35mm print - that's been the reasoning behind having the studios pay for the conversion since they will save more money on print costs than the exhibitor will save in labor (especially since right now any labor savings is offset by any maintenance contracts that were signed) With the number of substandard 35mm presentations out there digital will serve to bring all presentations up or down to the same level (at least until exhibitors start buying their own equipment) . . . . . I'd be willing to bet that there will be more quality increases than decreases . . . . . But I think 2K quality gets close to 35mm but there are still some detriments that I hope will go away as filmmakers start filming and editing in digital (I'm withholding my final opinion until I see some major content done completely in digital). I personally beleive that digital should have gone with 4K as the standard only because we need to have something significantly better than 1080p HD - most consumers only look at the resolution difference and not the overall picture of contrast, colorspace, source file, etc. We did a small "grand reopening" of our older location after some minor lobby improvements and showed the crowd some previews in digital, then the same ones in 35mm - the entire crowd thought the digital ones looked better, some even commented on how steady the picture was . . . . . but to me the 35mm picture was better overall - i.e. it was obvious that the digital picture looked "plastic" and the 35mm had better depth. (yes previews are not the best source to use for a comparison, yes the 35mm was lit properly, yes the edges were sharp, yes the jump and weave was in tolerance) The average consumer tends to only care about sound, focus and a bright steady image . . . . only those of us "educated" folk (and a small percentage of the general population) can see that film **can** be better when done right.  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 08-26-2007 03:07 PM                     You're right, David; I mis-typed... I meant most of the reason digital projection people are pushing for a theater owner to go to digital was to save labor. Although since most projectionists get minimum wage, I don't think they are saving much. I feel theater owners will not see much of the cost benefits brought about by digital, unless they can get into the 'alternate content' biz.  |  IP: Logged David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 08-26-2007 04:12 PM                     Our owner was fed the line "you can turn the booth lights out and lock the doors" . . . . . We saw significant labor savings only because we had 2 projectionists for every shift at our 18 screen locations - we were able to cut labor in half and use only 1 per shift . . . . our 10 screen has gone to mostly manager run so they are saving some labor there, but not as much as the larger locations. We do pay our staff more than minimum wage, but not as much as I'd like - unfortunately I'm outside the labor equation (I'd equate a digital booth manager position to that of a TV station broadcast engineer and it should pay similarly) The alternative content is hard - in the US you can't show any major sports games (even with free admission using local broadcast signals) . . . . . we've done a lot of alternative stuff and so far nothing has really taken off - it still ends up being more profitable to show regular movies (there is not much left after you pay all the fees and revenue shares on alternative content) . . . . we are still waiting for that one line of content that will take off . . . . . but there is some success with business meetings that can be scheduled before the first show and some locally produced Indie film premieres . . . . I'm hoping details on 3D sports events will be worked out - clips from the NBA Allstar game that were shown at ShoWest were promising . . . .  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 08-26-2007 04:15 PM                     quote: David Zylstra The alternative content is hard - in the US you can't show any major sports games (even with free admission using local broadcast signals) I imagine if you got permission from the professional organization (MLB, NFL, whichever it may be) you could.  |  IP: Logged David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 08-26-2007 04:21 PM                     We tried . . . . . so far we have had lawsuits threatened by the NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB if we tried to show their games after we talked to them . . . . . The NFL quoted some rule about not being able to show their games on screens larger than 52" . . . . . "but most bars have screens larger than that" - "we choose not to stop them" was the answer . . . . I read somewhere that National Amusements was talking with the NFL - hopefully they can get something changed . . . . .  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 08-26-2007 04:26 PM                     My guess is that they would've been ok with it if you paid a licensing fee or something. Though, obviously I didn't participate in these talks.  |  IP: Logged David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 08-26-2007 04:34 PM                     That's what we were hoping for, but the answers were flat nos . . . . . . we also looked at DirectTV and paying the fees corresponding to the auditorium seating capacity but the standard contract excludes theatres from showing their content. I've heard rumors from other sources that one of the reasons to deny theatres from showing games (and other TV shows) is ratings - they don't want to take the chance of a Neilson (sp?) family going to the theatre instead of staying home . . . . . Something will eventually change when the larger chains go digital and start asking for permission to show broadcast content, us small guys don't carry much weight . . . . .  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 08-26-2007 05:13 PM                     Showing a event at a cinema is rather different to showing it in a bar. I doubt that whatever arrangments have been negotiated for bars would cover cinemas, and possibly those agreements specifically exclude cinema screenings being licensed as well. Whoever represents the bars may well not want competition from cinemas, and may have managed to negotiate an exclusive clause. Even is they were able to, I doubt that an organisation would want to negotiate with an individual cinema for rights to screen an event. Of course, most cinemas do not have the facilities to screen live events at the moment, so there has been little demand for this. I think you may be right that this will change, but I think you may have to wait for quite a few more years for it to happen, and I doubt that it will be cheap. The Odeon Leicester Square screened a few matches from the last football World Cup, but I've no idea how this was arranged, nor how much it cost them. I think this was largely experimental, to see if the demand was there, as it's many years since live sporting events have been screened in cinemas here, and that was not in high definition, nor in colour..  |  IP: Logged David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 08-26-2007 06:53 PM                     We have had no issues getting overseas stuff - like Cricket matches or World Cup soccer games, but the live broadcast times are usually not during business hours and with our liquor license we cannot have customers in the building after 2am(the delayed stuff went over OK). I'm not sure of all the rules but I think bars can show anything that is broadcast over the airwaves as well as use satellite services where they pay based on seating capacity . . . . there are some rules pertaining to screen sizes for NFL but they choose not to enforce them for bars (there may be similar screen size rules for other sports, but the NFL quoted theirs as the biggest reason to deny us). DirectTV got into trouble with the WWE since they were selling the WWE monthly pay-per-view matches to a handful of theatres across the country - the WWE put a stop to it after a few more theatres tried to get on the same program . . . . funny thing is theatres in Cananda can show WWE matches since the rights are done through a different promotion company . . . .  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-26-2007 07:47 PM                     The problem with showing an event like a Football Game at a Theater is that you will HAVE TO have the same accomodation as a bar.... same drinks, same onion ring baskets, free pretzels... etc. for it to ever work. If anyone really believes that Monday Night NFL can be turned into a family affair they are kidding themselves. Those folks go to the bars and clubs to watch because of the booze, beer, food, and free pretzels... and other friends they hang out with. How are you going to handle side bets in a theater scene with the NFL.... Mark  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 08-27-2007 03:16 AM                     Mark, You're assuming that the people who go to a bar for football are the same exact people who would go to a cinema.  |  IP: Logged David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 08-27-2007 08:23 AM                     All 3 of our locations have full liquor licenses . . . . . . it definitely sweetens the pot for special events (i.e. corporate buyouts, Indie premiers, etc) Chris - I think I saw in a previous post you work for Cineplex/Loews/AMC? did you ever work with Tim E? if so did he end up staying with AMC?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-27-2007 08:33 AM                     quote: Chris Slycord You're assuming that the people who go to a bar for football are the same exact people who would go to a cinema. There won't be enough people left to come to see it at the cinema... if they aren't watching it at a Sports Bar for free they are cooking out at home and watching it for free there. If you accomodate these people in the ways they're used to then yes... they will come, David has the right idea. Mark  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-27-2007 10:17 AM                        I agree with Mark. People want to "kick back" in a bar and watch a game, throw peanut shells on the floor, hoot and holler at the cheerleaders, get drunk & stupid, eat free food, spill the beer and damage the furniture. I know, I've been there/done that! The broadcast TV networks would probably raise holy hell if NFL or NBA or whoever started talking about licensing their content in non-television venues. BUT, if the advertisers could be kept happy, it might work out. I'd think the film companies would be lining up to buy the rights, then they could sell it just like a regular feature movie.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 08-27-2007 02:57 PM                     Mark, I didn't see the World Cup matches at the Odeon, I can think of few things less interesting than football, but I was told by somebody who did go that there were a fair number of people there. Whether this was just the novelty factor of seeing it in a cinema, or whether people would continue to go to regular shows, I've no idea.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 9 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.