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Author Topic: Trinnov Audio - OVATION digital cinema processor Harold Hallikainen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 906 From: Denver, CO, USA Registered: Aug 2009 posted 12-15-2015 11:26 PM                        On decode licenses, the royalty paid by a cinema processor manufacturer to decode audio bitstreams exceeds the cost of a fair number of Blu ray players. HDMI is also not cheap... Harold  |  IP: Logged Marin Zorica Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 671 From: Biograd na Moru, Croatia Registered: May 2003 posted 12-16-2015 03:41 PM                     Since units are mostly made to meet dci specificaion, where home decoding capabilities are not mean to be used? And next, yea, to pay for technology....just try to take count number of dolby cp750 vs. number of say yamaha av receivers on market....  |  IP: Logged Larry Zuverink Film Handler Posts: 98 From: Caledonia, MI, USA Registered: Nov 2002 posted 06-07-2016 05:11 PM                     We had a demo of this a couple of weeks ago. It was the most amazing thing I have ever heard. The time phasing that it does in setup literally eliminates an amazing amount issues that takes several hours to do manually. I know of three other chains that bought the demo and had it left in. It turns even 5.1 into immersive sounding sound. I highly recommend going to or getting a demo of this if you have a chance.  |  IP: Logged Harold Hallikainen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 906 From: Denver, CO, USA Registered: Aug 2009 posted 06-07-2016 10:05 PM                        Sounds nice! What's it cost? Harold  |  IP: Logged Daniel Schulz Master Film Handler Posts: 387 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 06-08-2016 12:42 AM                        I wonder how closely related this box is to the Trinnov Altitude 32 home theater processor? Also essentially a PC, decoding all of the home theater surround codecs, plus using Trinnov's own optimization and speaker remapping. quote: Larry Zuverink We had a demo of this a couple of weeks ago. It was the most amazing thing I have ever heard. The time phasing that it does in setup literally eliminates an amazing amount issues that takes several hours to do manually. I know of three other chains that bought the demo and had it left in. The Trinnov optimizer is really, really good. Dirac Live in the Datasat AP20 is, as well, though I often wonder how many theaters bother to use it and how many just calibrate the traditional way with parametrics. quote: Larry Zuverink It turns even 5.1 into immersive sounding sound. Is that allowed, though? I know Barco is careful to tell people with Barco AP24s that they can only use the upmixer on pre-show content. Studios and filmmakers are understandably twitchy about applying up mixers to 5.1 or 7.1 theatrical mixes.  |  IP: Logged Frank Cox Film God Posts: 2234 From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada Registered: Apr 2011 posted 06-08-2016 01:39 AM                        I have a certain amount of difficulty imagining that anyone will pay significant money for one of these things and then use it only content other than the actual movies. Are they being sold on the "wink wink nudge nudge" basis?  |  IP: Logged Mike Babb Master Film Handler Posts: 250 From: Norwich UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 06-08-2016 01:45 AM                        I am not a Trinnov employee but I did help with some of the demo installations. 5.1 and 7.1 are 5.1 and 7.1, if you run pink noise in 7.1 for example you will get 82 on the surrounds, either per channel, or per side in 5.1. The key to the system is time alignment, you can easily see the response of the speaker in 2 way, 3 way or 4 way crossover alignment and set for the least dip at the crossover point. You also see the distance variances between the screen channels including sub, and surrounds. So it's time aligned within the channel, and for the whole system. In the end, I hear what many people have described as a more immersive playback of 5.1 and 7.1. I've had this experience in a dozen rooms now. The processor is also an analyzer, with graphic representations of the measurements of frequency, phase and impulse response, as well as a final report.  |  IP: Logged Daniel Schulz Master Film Handler Posts: 387 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 06-08-2016 02:01 AM                        quote: Mike Babb 5.1 and 7.1 are 5.1 and 7.1, if you run pink noise in 7.1 for example you will get 82 on the surrounds, either per channel, or per side in 5.1. That is a misunderstanding on my part then. The AP24 will turn 5.1 into 11.1, although only for pre-show (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). Harman is also selling a Quantum Logic box that will upmix 5.1 or 7.1 to immersive 3D, with unclear implications for how theaters will use that feature for feature films.  |  IP: Logged Mike Babb Master Film Handler Posts: 250 From: Norwich UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 06-08-2016 04:09 AM                        They are using a lot of the same measurement, time alignment and correction technology as the Altitude but the Altitude does Dolby Atmos, DTS-X and Auro 3D. I have no hands on time with the Altitude, but it can be set up with a 3D microphone whereas the Ovation uses an 8 mic system. No remapping is used in the commercial cinema box.  |  IP: Logged Harold Hallikainen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 906 From: Denver, CO, USA Registered: Aug 2009 posted 06-08-2016 06:58 AM                        How does time alignment between different speakers work? It seems like it would only be aligned at one listening position, and we have a few hundred in an auditorium. Harold  |  IP: Logged Mike Babb Master Film Handler Posts: 250 From: Norwich UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 06-08-2016 10:29 AM                        Harold, I take your point regarding listening positions. Specifically, it measures and compensates for the delay/distances from the speakers to the reference point, first within the channel and then channel to channel. Beyond that though, I wonder how many systems are aligned precisely within the channel, and then channel to channel, in the world of cinemas? Surely having the ability to see time alignment, and then being able to align to a reference point would yield improvement in most systems? In the field I very often find speakers out of phase, even within a cabinet, so flipping it +/- to be more correct is a step, but being able to see the rest is pretty cool.  |  IP: Logged Larry Zuverink Film Handler Posts: 98 From: Caledonia, MI, USA Registered: Nov 2002 posted 06-08-2016 01:24 PM                     I should have been more clear. It is actually playing 5.1 or 7.1. But it makes 5.1 and 7.1 sound like it should. The ending results feels more immersive. The cost is around $5k us. They do not have any decoding yet but from what I understand they are working on it. It does have a 8 channel input so alt content can be decoded externally.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-09-2016 06:43 AM                     I'll say this...I've found that some "factory" presets for time-alignment have not been accurate. That is, altering the factory preset for delay within the speaker system has yielded improvement in response via actual measurement within the theatre. There are a lot of factors that go into a pleasing sound system...most are not controlled by the cinema processor. Starting with the room acoustics, you can never overcome bad acoustics, you can only make the best out of the situation. However, poor set up/equipment can make even good acoustics sound painful. Speakers are the next biggest factor. There are speaker systems where I've found that the fader on the cinema processor can run at 7.0 without incident but using the same test equipment and essentially the same theatre acoustics, the fader levels have to be MUCH lower to keep the pain level down. Time-alignment was neither the cause nor the cure to either. In general, the less processing I find I need to do to get the system to perform to spec, generally the better it is going to sound. So getting time-alignment correct will go towards that end by requiring less equalization (which introduces time-alignment issues that now will vary from channel to channel, which will muddy up the phase relationship between the channels).  |  IP: Logged Harold Hallikainen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 906 From: Denver, CO, USA Registered: Aug 2009 posted 06-09-2016 08:13 AM                        Thanks Steve! Is this crossover time alignment? I can see that being important to everyone in the room. Between separate speakers, though, it seems that screen speakers will be time aligned for the center of the audience if the screen is flat. They will not be time aligned for any other position in the audience. Then there are surrounds. I believe the auditorium specific surround delay is to ensure that reverberant sound in the soundtrack arrives to the listener after the direct sound. This works well if the direct sound is coming from the screen. As we move to object-based sound, it becomes interesting. Mixers are apparently doing a 7.1 or similar mix, then adding objects on top of that. The objects never get delayed. Surround "bed" channels do get delayed, but screen bed channels do not. If an object in the back of the room needs reverberation from the front of the room, the audience in the front of the room will hear the reverberation from the screen channels before the direct sound from the back of the room. It gets messy. Harold  |  IP: Logged Mike Babb Master Film Handler Posts: 250 From: Norwich UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 06-09-2016 01:54 PM                        Harold, I can think of a number of occasions where the center channel dialogue quality was impacted by the left and right speakers, perhaps sub too, and time alignment solved the issue. Is easier for me, having heard this, and being around many others as they heard it, to say there is a positive effect to the way this system helps you calibrate a room. It's why these guys are quite willing to demo a processor in someone's cinema. Taking an existing system and making it sound better saves a lot of time "selling" and explaining.  |  IP: Logged

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