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Author Topic: Trinnov Audio - OVATION digital cinema processor Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-24-2016 06:19 AM                     What is the support of it like in the USA? Do they have Repair Exchange?  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 12-24-2016 08:07 AM                     Knowing where a new processor is installed does not only allow me to go there to just listen to it, but also talk to the local techs and 'see' it being operated, get my own fingers on it. So it's not completely useless. Also keep in mind, this forum is occupied by installers/integrators AND exhibition users, both have different views on specific equipment and how to approach it. Not that we need a new post for every single installation. Better to have a list that can be forwarded to those interested. Also, even if there is SOME advertising aspect to it, I do like to get an idea how well a new type of gear is accepted. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Mike Babb Master Film Handler Posts: 250 From: Norwich UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 12-24-2016 09:42 AM                        Hello all, First of all, in 2016 my relationshio with them was as an outside contractor doing demos and training in the US. Starting January 1st it will be more formal, still on a contract basis, but as an insider in demos, training, support, and assisting the Cinema Sales Manager in whatever way I can. I'm still running my US company and spending much of the year doing film festivals etc. Regarding Steve's question, we are formalizing the US support and repair exchange procedures soon, as of now it is handled either by the dealer or my company working directly with Trinnov. People may know that in different countries, the dealer structure provides more, or even exclusive contact with the customers. Regarding Marco's comment, the Ovation deals with time alignment, phase and frequency in the calibration process. Regarding several comments, of course the skill of the engineer is a huge factor. In demos in 2016, we went to cinemas and did various levels of comparison depending on the time and equipment. The idea is also to train the existing engineer or service company to do the Ovation calibration so they can see they can achieve the results we achieve. The basic process is pretty easy but you do need to start with an audio system that is wired properly, all channels working etc, and as we know that is not always the case. In several cases the existing system was calibrated recently, of the day of the demo so as to have a fair test. And finally, I won't post locations anymore unless someone asks a specific question. I will answer tech questions to the best of my ability, I am still learning about the advanced capabilities, but the basics and some of the advanced parameters I understand. And of course every room is different, so we learn something every time we do a calibration.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 12-24-2016 01:40 PM                     quote: Mike Babb Regarding Marco's comment, the Ovation deals with time alignment, phase and frequency in the calibration process. The Dirac EQ actually flattens the phase through the WHOLE spectrum. That is, you end up with 0° phase from 20 to 20Khz. My understanding is that the Trinnov indeed deals with phase and time alignment as you would do by using SmaartLive and a very good EQ system but it does not flatten the phase - am I correct? I am not trying to start a war on which EQ is better, just commenting on Mark's comments about Trinnov leaving the competition in the dust.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-24-2016 02:01 PM                     quote: Marco Giustini I am not trying to start a war on which EQ is better, just commenting on Mark's comments about Trinnov leaving the competition in the dust. It does. Which other cinema processors have this built in as standard? It's also pretty reasonably priced for it's capabilities when you compare it to the rest. I also like the idea of directional sound however I have yet to hear a system, or a mix that justifies the expense of installing it. All in all the directional systems going in have been pretty lame and the mixes underwhelming. Mark  |  IP: Logged Mike Babb Master Film Handler Posts: 250 From: Norwich UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 12-24-2016 02:14 PM                        Marco, the optimizer is their own software, measuring impulse response, phase and frequency and dealing with all of them. It shows direct sound as well as room response. I am not sure if the Smaart comparison is apples to apples, I get that you mean to say Smaart works in the time domain, but this is more than a measurement device. I don't know enough about Dirac to compare them, but again, it might not be apples to apples. The best thing is to get some hands on time with the calibration process, and some listening time, which is how I decided it's something I wanted to spend time on.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 12-24-2016 04:26 PM                     Mark, What is the directional sound you are mentioning? The AP20 has Dirac. And HDMI. And DTS decoding. And an incredibly advanced automation system. Mike, I did mention Smaartlive + a good EQ system. Smaartlive per se is just a measuring system as you pointed out. I cannot remember 100% but I believe I did ask the phase question to Trinnov themselves at an exhibition. My understanding is that the Trinnov would do a fantastic job in PROPERLY measure the sound (as you say, direct + reverberated) and apply FIR filters to properly address it. Phase would be optimised at crossover point and between speakers but it would not be flattened as the Dirac would do. Again, I'm not trying to say that Dirac is better - just saying that I wouldn't say that the Trinnov is leaving the competition in the dust. And now I'm thinking about, I reckon the CP850 uses LAKE EQ which does not affect the phase of the system, so not just a basic EQ either.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-24-2016 08:38 PM                     When I say directional sound I'm referring to Atmos, DTS-X (via GDC) and Barco (what ever their's is called). I've seen enough movies in two of these processes and have yet to be very impressed with them. A good 6-Track Mag Mix is far superior and seems to offer more "knock your socks off" experience. The cost to install vs return in quality and thrill for these systems is just not there... And Atmos mixes are extremely inconsistent to say the least. What is still consistant? 5.1 and 7.1 mixes! Mark  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 12-25-2016 02:57 AM                     and are you blaming the technology for that?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-25-2016 09:32 AM                     Hardly. I actually like the ideas and theory behind the technology, it just has yet to impress. Even a couple of the systems in L.A. area that I heard were underwhelming. There is just no real return on it for the exhibitor except probably charging higher ticket prices which the public seem to want to resist paying these days. ($16.50 for an Atmos show in Utah while most others are still $8.50) All the while there is still tons of room for improvement in existing 5.1 and 7.1 technology. Trinnov hit the nail on the head as far as pushing the technology further along. A number of years back SMPTE was in the process of and may still be revamping mic standards used to eq B-Chains, but as usual SMPTE takes so long to get something done that new technology emerges and then whats the point? None the less they do put out some interesting blurbs every once in a full moon and you might find this one from 2014 interesting. TC-25CSS B-Chain Frequency and Temporal Response Analysis of Theatres and Dubbing Stages  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-25-2016 12:01 PM                     I'm actually with Mark on this one (it happens). If you look at the bang for the buck, Surround 7.1 has it. What does it cost? Typically it is 2 amplifier channels and perhaps a rewire of the surround array with no new speakers added (if you did your 5.1 array properly to begin with. We wire all new installations for 7.1 and any that were "EX" in the film days are 7.1 now in the digital days. Those that have immersive audio, I encourage you to listen to the same movie and switch between 7.1 mode and the immersive mode at various points in the movie (I've done this). It isn't that immersive doesn't add anything it is that it adds, comparatively little to movie and yet cost SO much more. Ask yourself, how many MORE tickets will you sell because of that relatively small perception of benefit will you sell in order to make up for the VERY large up-front costs. There are rooms that are a natural for immersive audio and more power to them. They need to remain at the cutting edge to remain relevant but that doesn't describe the typical cinema. As one moves towards lower channel count (e.g. the 16 channel variants of immersive) they narrow the gap between 7.1 even further to make it even less of a wise move (financially). I'd MUCH rather see the channel count increase or even more in an object based system with channels concentrated on the screen. THAT IS WHERE THE MOVIE IS HAPPENING. I think 5-screen channels and Left-Outside/Right-Outside (or "Wide) are many, many times more important than multiple surround channels. Locating a sound with the picture has an immediate impact on realism that the average person can pick up. I wish that the 16-channel systems thought of that more than the waste-of-time-and-money height channels.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-25-2016 01:52 PM                     I completely agree on concentrate on the screen. There are plenty of really large screens out there that suffer fomr major holes in the audio placement. Full range systems mounted on the ceiling do absolutely nothing for me, and for 90% of the movie going public. Mark  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 12-25-2016 01:56 PM                     We can talk about that but I thought the original topic was "Trinnov is leaving the industry in the dust", you mentioned temporal analysis. Dirac does that. I don't understand why the AP20 is not leaving the industry in the dust as well to be honest ! (Happy Christmas!)  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-25-2016 02:24 PM                     For doing a large system the AP-20 wold now be my second choice. I was my first choice. Mark  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 12-25-2016 05:13 PM                     Ok, still not on the topic you introduced.  |  IP: Logged

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