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Author Topic: Trinnov Audio - OVATION digital cinema processor Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-27-2016 11:36 AM                     If you are inputting HDMI into a server (anyone's) then you are already at PCM audio so something upstream had to turn it into that already decoded. And yes, those that use other means (L/R analog or the various S/PDIF) would need some form of decoder to avoid a stupid L/R only output situation. Heck this box can't even handle 2.0 DCPs without just giving you Left/Right rather than a pro-logic/mono output (I've seen numerous "classic" titles that come in as 2.0 that should be mono. But hey, if it works for you, go for it. I hope it sounds better but I'm already seeing "deal breakers" in it for me.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-27-2016 01:17 PM                     Most of the use of HDMI around here is for screen ads from little tiny crappy USB driven servers... so you are correct in saying what you did. I think I only have three or four customers including Mike that play Blu-Rays for things like kids shows. And the fact remains that Blu-Ray is a very inferior exhibition format no matter how you deal with it and I doubt something better will come along for cinemas unless the studios can get their money grabber hands involved in it. IMHO the best solution if a site plays Blu-rays constantly is to have a dual processor situation so you have the best of both worlds. The second processor would be a higher end prosumer unit capable of all those formats which the Blu-Ray end could feed and the same amps and speakers would be utilized. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-27-2016 01:57 PM                     As I've mentioned before, I DO have that solution in the Crestron HD-XSP. http://www.crestron.com/products/model/HD-XSP But there goes $1,500 to add into the cost. Had the unit even had just Dolby AC3/DTS on those S/PDIF inputs, it would alleviate a bunch. I mean, even the JSD-60 can do that and it cost on the order of the Crestron piece (though the Crestron handles both Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio as well as the rest, except Atmos). Now that the ECI-60 and DMA8-Plus are no more, (probably since most every processor except the Trinnov can handle pro-logic in some form and many/most can handle low-bandwidth multi-channel) it is more incumbent on the cinema processor to deal with such basic necessities. Again, better hope you don't have any art/retro theatres you put it in, or 2.0 movies will be in Left/Right.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-27-2016 06:39 PM                     That's really not much cost if it decodes all commonly used Blu-Ray and DVD Formats. It is the correct way to do things IMHO because the consumer end of things seems to change way more frequently than cinema does. Being locked all in one box like the AP-20 does to you is very undesirable to me. Mark  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 12-28-2016 03:32 AM                     Mark So your customers are happy to spend an extra $1500 on an external box that does what the AP20 can do out of the box because "consumer standards can change in the future"? Well, I'm happy to hear that, you shall introduce me to some of them one day. I still don't know if you have a Dirac kit, BTW.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-28-2016 01:26 PM                        For what it's worth, I haven't played a BluRay for an audience in at least 3 years. (Our Oppo Blu-Ray player bit the dust and won't work anyway.) I use MakeMKV and DCP-o-Matic to create a full 5.1 DCP. But even that's not necessary much these days because the studios all have their kid-show stuff out on DCPs.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 12-30-2016 04:45 PM                     Aside from BluRay/DVD - Notebook/Computer video + audio, SAT/Cable/DVB-T receiver, media players, Playstation/X-Box, AppleTV, Google Chromecast, you name it. Some of these have no separate audio outputs other than HDMI. Yes, admitted, some locations/screens will never play anything else than DCPs. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 12-30-2016 04:56 PM                     ...and for those location a CP750 will be perfectly fine (even though I believe the CP750 is more expensive than the AP20 anyway). I am not saying that anybody needs an HDMI input but that designing a new sound processor today with no HDMI is simply wrong. (as it is to design one with no multichannel input, don't get me wrong!)  |  IP: Logged Kristo Nalo Film Handler Posts: 24 From: Skopje, MK, MK, Macedonia Registered: Nov 2016 posted 01-03-2017 07:02 AM                     It's also happened to me before, I figure out that the Fort of my HDMI is one of the problem of that.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-03-2017 10:07 AM                     I don't know if I quite agree with you Marco on the requirement of an HDMI port on a new cinema processor design. I think it is a very good idea and if done right, then would be VERY welcomed! I'm very nervous about my HDMI stuff. There are a bazillion ways to muck up HDMI and only one way it works (EDID and Keys are all good). Putting my faith in a Cinema Processor manufacturer for such things makes me nervous as it will never be their top priority. You can also get burned by things like the CP850. Yeah, it has an HDMI input but it can't decode over 80% of the Blu-ray discs out there because they are all DTS encoded, not Dolby. That isn't the fault of the cinema operator and they shouldn't have to get involved on any format war. At home, everything is solved by having every A/V receiver decode everything. Such is not the case in Cinema unless you get a politically neutral company. Thus far, what I've seen is that DTS Master HD is getting supported but not Dolby True HD...it is probably the safer move given the state of Blu-rays. Clearly, this is drifting a bit off topic other than to note that the Ovation does not support HDMI, Dolby or DTS.  |  IP: Logged Mike Babb Master Film Handler Posts: 250 From: Norwich UK Registered: Jul 2002 posted 01-03-2017 07:43 PM                        Probably beating a dead horse at this point but I'm here at a film festival with Ovations in two venues. We have Oppo blurays connected via RCA to DB25 in 5.1 (because the venues are). I also brought two DB25 to DB25 pinned for DMA8+ that the festival has if they are needed. And the primary format in all cases is DCP. So, I have what we need, and more, and as always, we all take into account the needs of the venue. Both are live stages and live rooms, and I very much appreciate calibration tool I have for time, phase and frequency. Ovation hit the market in 2013. Perhaps if it hit the market in 2017 it might have been designed with HDMI. Altitude their home cinema processor needs and has HDMI. I have what I need here:)  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-04-2017 06:01 AM                     Again, I don't think HDMI belongs in any cinema processor because consumer specs and systems change way too rapidly and in many cases a simple firmware update is not going to cut it. It's going to require a hardware change or upgrade. Let HDMI be a separate device. Some cinema equipment manufacturer could make some money there.... Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-04-2017 06:12 AM                     Cinema equipment manufacturers are NOT going to make money there. There isn't the volume. And while it is true that the consumer market is an ever changing minefield of shiny new toys, having a degree of capability ensures that the cinema's bases are covered. Having a cinema processor that handles Dolby and DTS consumer audio, to a degree just removes that hurdle. Those that have to have the latest format capability, for whatever reason, will also find themselves doing more extravagant systems anyway. Nobody is saying that a cinema processor has to always be at the latest/greatest on consumer formats but it SHOULD in this digital video age where Blu-rays ARE being shown to the public have more than an embarrassing capability. That is, the Ovation cannot even handle DCP 2.0s (yet) let alone anything that is only 2-channel without merely putting that out of left and right. I don't think HDMI would be a deal breaker for me, HDMI always makes me quite nervous on how to keep it safe and the more boxes you have on it, the greater the liability of a dreaded HDCP resync. But not having a 2:4 decoder in a cinema processor is a deal-breaker. That capability goes back decades. And not having the option to use one of the way-too-many S/PDIF inputs decode AC3 and DTS audio seems quite short sighted. Those are a no-brainer since even the layperson could grab any Blu-ray player and plug in a coax and be done. This isn't "premium" features. Even the JSD60D does that and it is under $2,000 PLUS it does everything else a basic DCinema processor should do.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 01-04-2017 07:20 AM                     I don't see consumer specs/codecs changing too quickly. We are not talking about computer systems, but consumer electronics. You don't release a DVD with a new audio codec when 90% of the installed base of players will not support it. MPEG2 is around for quite a while, and will be much longer, same for dts or ac3, or their lossless/high end equivalents. The trouble was never product cycles, but Dolby being in the same market for Cinema Processors AND AC3, with dts being a competitor. I know e.g. that the AP20 contains an OEM daughterboard for HDMI connectivity. That doughterboard manufacturer takes care of all the software and codec issues. That seems to be a nice balance between integrated HDMI and keeping up with latest developments. There is a plug-in compatible version of that board available with support for HDMI 2.0. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-04-2017 12:22 PM                     We are already well on our way to having to integrate in Ultra HD, it's gonna change, you can bet on it. I also have no issues sticking to using Oppo's that already have the 5.1 output. Mark  |  IP: Logged

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