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Topic: WORLD TRADE CENTER TOWERS JUST COLLAPSED!
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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 09-11-2001 02:20 PM
Glad to know you and yours are safe, Bob.How terribly terribly sad these events are. It is probably too early to point fingers, but the Trade Center was a previous target of bin Laden. I haven't felt so much revulsion watching something happen since the fire at Waco. The sight of those buildings collapsing into rubble and knowing that there were probably hundreds if not thousands of people inside was horrendous. My prayers go out to them and their families. Indiscriminate bombing and retaliation against an entire group of people, women and children included, isn't an answer. Even finding Osama bin Laden and the people responsible is only the first part of an answer. Ultimately, the underlying situation causing the unrest must be solved. Things like this scare me. In my opinion, the US should be seen as a just mediator and peacekeeper. If we had been seen as such by the Palestinians, this attack wouldn't have happened. How have things been allowed to go so wrong for long enough that events like this happen? Hidden in the news is a mention of a suicide bomber going against one of the major Afghan opposition leaders. AHMED SHAH MASOOD, the Afghan opposition leader, has been killed by suicide bombers posing as journalists. Afghanistan’s opposition leaders accused Osama bin Laden and Pakistan of masterminding the attack. Things like this tell me that bin Laden isn't mainstream even in the Arab world.
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Charles Everett
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: New Jersey
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-11-2001 02:33 PM
This is a direct payback for the US' blind support of "Israel, Right or Wrong". Israel is conducting a scorched-earth policy against the Palestinians while the US looks the other way.The US has a long history of supporting fascism -- the generals in Guatemala, Suharto in Indonesia, Pinochet in Chile, the "dirty war" in Argentina. Not to mention "friendly dictators" (Somoza, Mobutu, Noriega, Saddam Hussein) and "freedom fighters" (contras, ARENA, UNITA, the KLA). US-owned Big Business was all too eager to do business with the Nazis. "Nuke Bagdad (sic) and another Arab city"? THAT will be the start of World War III. FWIW my father was in WWII and my ex-brother-in-law was in Vietnam.
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Charles Everett
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: New Jersey
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-11-2001 03:19 PM
"We've been getting out butts kicked all over the globe". HUH?Been too busy watching Rambo movies? Been too busy getting brainwashed by all the right-wing bullies and pro-war propaganda on TV? 1970: Nixon orders the secret bombing of Cambodia. That leads to protests all over and a state-sponsored massacre at Kent State. 1983: Reagan sends in the Army and Marines to overthrow a left-wing gov't in Grenada. 1986: Reagan orders Libya bombed in an attempt to kill Qaddafi. The bombs kill some of Qaddafi's family instead. 1989: Bush sends in the Army to overthrow Noreiga and kill thousands of Panama citizens. Noriega was our "Friendly Dictator" -- or was he? 1990: Bush sends the US military to the Middle East to defend Kuwait -- a monarchy invaded by Iraq. 1991: US military carpet-bombs Iraq and buries Iraqi troops in mass graves. 1993: US Army incinerates the Branch Davidians at Waco. That act of state-sponsored mass murder led directly to the Oklahoma City bombing 2 years later. BTW, I saw Apocalypse Now Redux just 2 days ago. That movie was co-written by a right-wing screenwriter who went on to direct the "Commies are coming" movie Red Dawn. Why is that important? Red Dawn was Timothy McVeigh's favorite movie -- and Red Dawn was released when Reagan was in power. I got rid of my TV 3 years ago because cable cost me $45/month and I only used it 2 hours a week. Am I glad I do not have TV now!
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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 09-11-2001 03:44 PM
I think Charles has the point that we need to examine history and if we are too stupid to learn from it we will be forced to repeat it.I have had friends and aquaintances with families in Israel (Jewish), Lebanon (Christian), Iran (Diest), Saudi Arabia (Moslem), and many other countries. The U.S. "involvement" in those areas isn't always looked upon kindly. A friend who I went to high school with taught at the American School in Isfahan and Tehran, Iran and had the good sense to leave as the shah was being deposed. The stories he brought back of the U.S backed shah's repression of his people were intense. We are fed news in the U.S. that usually isn't the whole story. The alternate views may not be to our liking, and may be just as biased in another direction as our own news, but most intellegent people can synthesize an understanding of the issues if they listen to both sides closely. At least we have some access through the internet. For an alternate view on Palestine think of yourself as an uneducated Arab shepherd peacefully tending a flock in the 1930s and having your children grow up into this mess.click here I've been ambivilent about U.S. support for Israel ever since I learned that a passing acquaintence of my father was assasinated by Israel's secret police. That person held dual Canadian U.S. citizenship and was working on a project that the Israeli military felt was a danger to the security of the country. Even the U.S. government has had run-ins with Israeli spies. You can get some news articles on the middle east situation here I'll fight for the U.S. with my last breath, but that doesn't stop me from thinking our leaders have made some stupid and short-sighted mistakes. Things should never have been allowed to degenerate to this point, and I blame both the Republicans and Democrats equally for their share in the hate.
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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 09-11-2001 03:58 PM
"This is a direct payback for the US' blind support of "Israel, Right or Wrong". Israel is conducting a scorched-earth policy against the Palestinians while the US looks the other way."Oh now I get it, those 50,000 people working in those buildings had it coming because of the US's involvement in another country. "For an alternate view on Palestine think of yourself as an uneducated Arab shepherd peacefully tending a flock in the 1930s and having your children grow up into this mess." Yes just imagine you are going into a building to work on tuesday morning and a 767 flies into you building and kills you. Or if you don't like that one... Just imagine that mommy and daddy won't be coming home again, ever, because some religious zealot crashed an airplane into the building where they work. Why do you guys think that everyone else in the world is an innocent but US citizens are not? What did those people in those buildings do to warrant being butchered by some religious idiots Charles are you in college or are you of college age? This is truely amazing ------------------ Greg Mueller Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut http://www.muellersatomics.com/
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